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Thread: Finally decided to turbo my 3800 - planning phase

  1. #1
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    Finally decided to turbo my 3800 - planning phase

    Obviously without actually measuring a bunch of crap you have to make some assumptions with numbers. I tried to be realistic on these so if you see any errors let me know so I can make more adjustments. I am not going to delve into my absurd list of mods right now. While some if it relevant, I want to just concentrate on hard numbers for the time being. Now please realize that I am not looking for an exact HP or 1/4 time. These are just reference points.

    Target Crank HP=575
    Engine Displacement=232
    Running on pump gas with hopefully 11.5:1 Air/Fuel ratio
    BSFC=.46 (estimated)
    VE=75% (pretty sure I went low on this)
    Mid Range Estimated RPM=6000 (i used a number where I would be close to top of the TQ band)
    Peak Power Estimated RPM=6500 (I will have to look into cams cause I don't think my current one will push the RPM up this high and still make power)
    I am going with an Air/Air intercooler with an estimated 1 psi drop and with an assumed effectiveness of about 70%.
    Typical barometric pressure in MI of 14-15
    Ambient temp=80 (went with a realistic summer temp on this)

    These numbers will net the following

    MID RPM:
    Crank HP-531
    Boost Gauge PSI=20 (yes i know i will need a perfect tune)
    Pressure ratio=2.46
    Intake manifold temp=146F
    Corrected airflow=47.96 lb/hr
    Crank TQ=465

    MAX RPM:
    Crank HP-576
    Boost Gauge PSI=20 (yes i know i will need a perfect tune)
    Pressure ratio=2.46
    Intake manifold temp=146F
    Corrected airflow=51.95 lb/hr
    Crank TQ=465

    Based on that info and looking at the Turbo map i think the best Turbo for this would be GTX3582Rhttps://turbobygarrett.com/turbobyga...arger#GTX3582R

    It looks like the efficiency is around 78% and is very close to the island.*

    With making super huge assumptions this would put a 3400 lb car at close to 11.1 @ 122mph in the quarter mile.*

    I haven't looked into any housings yet so if you have any advice i am all ears. Again for the sake of people trolling the crap out of this thread, realize these numbers are just hard numbers, nothing is set in stone and a lot of this is realistic, but also assumed. I don't need comments on how I should get a V8, I know they are better, I just like the V6.

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    Poos as well for variety of replies.

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  3. #2
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    You should get a V8.




    So other than having a turbo picked out, you basically have nothing else planned? Cam? Head work? Intake work? Valve springs? Fuel pump? Fuel injectors? Trans plans? Rear end plans?
    1997 Camaro - sold
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  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by skimphish View Post
    You should get a V8.




    So other than having a turbo picked out, you basically have nothing else planned? Cam? Head work? Intake work? Valve springs? Fuel pump? Fuel injectors? Trans plans? Rear end plans?
    Everything has been decided already other than the parts for the Turbo kit.

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    I hope your other plans include a 12 bolt, 60lbs injectors (min) and a T-56 or one hell of a well built 4l60e.

    And a lot of cash. like buying a used SS kind of cash. I'm all for modding a 3800, but that kind of reliable hp will cost some serious coin. Be prepared. I learned this once I was in so deep that the only way left to go is forward or it be a waste.
    "I Am America (And So Can You)." ~Stephen Colbert~

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebony 4nd Ivory View Post
    I hope your other plans include a 12 bolt, 60lbs injectors (min) and a T-56 or one hell of a well built 4l60e.

    And a lot of cash. like buying a used SS kind of cash. I'm all for modding a 3800, but that kind of reliable hp will cost some serious coin. Be prepared. I learned this once I was in so deep that the only way left to go is forward or it be a waste.
    Yes on the injectors, looking at a Moser on the rear, and astro is building my T5 into an A5 that can handle up to 750 TQ.

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    FWIW, do 80# injectors. Keep timing sort of low, use boost to make up for it. Great turbo, I use a gt3582 with bb center. I would possibly go to the 1.something ar housing if I were you. I am auto and the .82 spools faster than my old journal bearing 62-1 with a .63 ar housing. Any turbo will harder to spool with a manual though without help. You did not mention engine mods, but that is a little over the point that stock stuff will take, I think.
    Running turbo car but.......for how long? up to 25#'s so far so good http://fquick.com/1SICK6
    11.63 @118.9 1.63 60' Best trap 119.6
    After almost 30k miles it popped, junk yard L26 going in with a better turbo
    Ooops, I did it again, lol.

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    Nice research on the turbo. I do think you should be more opened on the whole setup unless you are particularly keeping it as a secret for a reason. In which case, no one can really help because it will be a blind shot. I think the goals and objective are important, even though you have eluded to what might be the hp goals; we don't know what the car will be used for.
    5XXhp is really meaningless except one knows what you will be actually doing with said car, hope that makes sense!??!?!
    The only thing I can assume right now is this: "With making super huge assumptions this would put a 3400 lb car at close to 11.1 @ 122mph in the quarter mile"

    Turningfast,
    We don't know if this is a drag car, but "1.something a/r" assuming a t4 or even a t3 is huuuuge for a modded 3800. Your setup cannot be comparable, many variables that will make a .82a/r spool faster than a .63. Irregardless my uncles GN goes 11.3 @ ~122.xxmph this is with a porky 3600lbs car. And it uses a .63 housing I don't know what turbine wheel in it, but I know the compressor is a 59mm (60-1) old school journal FWIW.
    Last edited by Sixx; 08-29-2015 at 12:39 PM.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixx View Post
    Nice research on the turbo. I do think you should be more opened on the whole setup unless you are particularly keeping it as a secret for a reason. In which case, no one can really help because it will be a blind shot. I think the goals and objective are important, even though you have eluded to what might be the hp goals; we don't know what the car will be used for.
    5XXhp is really meaningless except one knows what you will be actually doing with said car, hope that makes sense!??!?!
    The only thing I can assume right now is this: "With making super huge assumptions this would put a 3400 lb car at close to 11.1 @ 122mph in the quarter mile"

    Turningfast,
    We don't know if this is a drag car, but "1.something a/r" assuming a t4 or even a t3 is huuuuge for a modded 3800. Your setup cannot be comparable, many variables that will make a .82a/r spool faster than a .63. Irregardless my uncles GN goes 11.3 @ ~122.xxmph this is with a porky 3600lbs car. And it uses a .63 housing I don't know what turbine wheel in it, but I know the compressor is a 59mm (60-1) old school journal FWIW.
    I think the main reason i don't seem open its because that is truly all i have figured out. I'm basically updating my whole strategy as i research and learn more. My ultimate goal is under 11 in the quarter mile. This car will not be a drag slut though. This will be daily driven in the summer so it must remain streetable. @Sixx does this give your enough info? I have done research on the fuel side and it appears 80# injectors are perfect as they will give me a little bit of room to grow if i need it. Im assuming 80% duty cycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bachert24 View Post
    I think the main reason i don't seem open its because that is truly all i have figured out. I'm basically updating my whole strategy as i research and learn more. My ultimate goal is under 11 in the quarter mile. This car will not be a drag slut though. This will be daily driven in the summer so it must remain streetable. @Sixx does this give your enough info? I have done research on the fuel side and it appears 80# injectors are perfect as they will give me a little bit of room to grow if i need it. Im assuming 80% duty cycle.

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    Yeah a street car under 11s in the 1/4 is doable, not sure on the reliability at this point if you are using a stock high compression engine. On the other hand, if it is simply a summer street car then nice. What are you doing for fuel pump? Also are you running a cam and what heads? I think the turbo is perfect, you will need to choose a streetable turbine housing and wheel matched to the compressor and your objective

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixx View Post
    Yeah a street car under 11s in the 1/4 is doable, not sure on the reliability at this point if you are using a stock high compression engine. On the other hand, if it is simply a summer street car then nice. What are you doing for fuel pump? Also are you running a cam and what heads? I think the turbo is perfect, you will need to choose a streetable turbine housing and wheel matched to the compressor and your objective
    The heads are stock heads with port and polish, LS3 retainers, springs, locks etc. Contemplating bigger valves. Current cam is currently GT1 cam. I planned on going N/A originally so i bought it. Ill be selling that and going with a stattama or intense turbo cam, or possibly even a custom grind. I think as far as fuel pump goes, I'll likely keep the stock one...supposedly it is good up to 800 hp. I have no clue how to select a turbine or anything yet. I have also been contemplating going with a precision 6266 turbo, but they don't do maps, helps keep the turbos cheap apparently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bachert24 View Post
    The heads are stock heads with port and polish, LS3 retainers, springs, locks etc. Contemplating bigger valves. Current cam is currently GT1 cam. I planned on going N/A originally so i bought it. Ill be selling that and going with a stattama or intense turbo cam, or possibly even a custom grind. I think as far as fuel pump goes, I'll likely keep the stock one...supposedly it is good up to 800 hp. I have no clue how to select a turbine or anything yet. I have also been contemplating going with a precision 6266 turbo, but they don't do maps, helps keep the turbos cheap apparently.

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    LOL that was why I suggested putting your whole plans up; someone would have given you at least an alternative and maybe a point of departure. The GT1 cam is not a "turbo grind" for the amount of power you wanting to make. Forget bigger valves, just get a good cam, maybe talk to Matt @ Stattama maybe he can suggest a grind which is good with a particular turbine and its housing. Most 60-66mm turbos will do the work; it is the turbine that will dictate how the power will be sustained. Yeah I am not personally sure about the fuel pump, never heard of the stock pump going that high.

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