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Thread: Crank case vacuum and electric ps pump.

  1. #1
    Project Sturmvögel WarShrike's Avatar
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    Crank case vacuum and electric ps pump.

    Got a few ideas running around in my head, go figure.

    I remember reading about guys changing the mechanical power steering pump over to an electric one from an MR2. If I did this, it would allow me to remotely mount the pump and reservoir to another spot, nicely out of the way for the manifolds/turbo/downpipe.

    So, what would I do about the belt routing? Put something else there instead. What in the world could that be? A belt driven crank case vacuum pump. The belt driven increases vacuum with rpm, while the electric ones people retrofit usually just stays the same and I worry about their durability on full time DD use.

    The mechanical ones can pull 14+ inches of vacuum at WOT while usually pulling 5-6 inches at idle. Some of these pumps have relief valves built in to prevent pulling too much vacuum, running the risk of damaging the internals

    The Holden intake manifold that I will use has a port for the PCV in the middle of the LIM valley, which runs up into the plenum via a tube. Easily bypassed there. I can tap the valve covers, run all three lines into a merge into a catch can, then out to the vacuum pump. I could then route the rest of that air back in through the turbo inlet aft of the filter (I don't want oil vapor in my engine bay).

    Thoughts?

    I plan on running a power steering and oil cooler as well. Anybody running a fan assisted setup on their oil cooler?
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    2000 Firebird
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  3. #2
    i havent seen a electric power steering pump, but it wouldn't surprise me....Now, one thing i might suggest is a electric water pump and run the belt directly to the alternator then the tensioner.
    2000 saturn L200....RETIRED after 300,xxx miles of loyal service
    1993 camaro z28....sold to move home
    2005 grand prix....totaled
    1997 camaro v6 a4 convertable....being fixed and painted then heading for retirement
    2005 Bonneville GXP...the lead sled
    2000 camaro SS...LS1 stock block, LS 243 heads, 2004 LS6 cam, FAST 92mm intake and TB, hooker headers and catted y pipe, Borla 3 inch cat back with cutout....she hasnt seen a set of tail lights yet!!!!
    Dan

  4. #3
    Project Sturmvögel WarShrike's Avatar
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    Nope. Not running an electric WP. Doesn't increase flow rate as rpm climbs. Might be fine for a drag racer, but not for the stuff this car will probably see.
    Click here for My Project Thread
    2000 Firebird
    ●WOT-Tech Thumper●P&P Intake/Heads●Longtubes●Strano HP7 Package●T56●

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    (╯°□°)╯︵ /(.□ . \) Sparky's Avatar
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    OK Help me out here... what's the purpose of a crank vacuum pump?
    - Jared
    1999 Camaro 3.8L A4. Cammed, so kind of fast.
    2007.5 Silverado LT Z71 5.3L 4x4. Slight lift, bigger-ish tires, not a slouch but slower than the car.


  6. #5
    Project Sturmvögel WarShrike's Avatar
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    Visit enginelabs website, search vacuum. I dont have links and am on my phone.
    Click here for My Project Thread
    2000 Firebird
    ●WOT-Tech Thumper●P&P Intake/Heads●Longtubes●Strano HP7 Package●T56●

  7. #6
    Hey warshrike are you talking about the pcv system?

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

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    ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ) triple_l82's Avatar
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    Larry:
    1996 camaro- Ole Blue. the very very very long time consuming project car
    1997 camaro- VIPER- turbov6camaro, search the forum for more info
    1979 Mustang Cobra - dad passed and left it to me, gonna be a clean street/strip car
    2014 Silverado CCSB 4x4 LTZ diamond white. Daily driver

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    ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ) triple_l82's Avatar
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    My setup will be different but I know some drag guys run external vacuum pumps to aid in sealing. If anyone reads that article this thread will make more sense.

    I say go for it man. Small fan on cooler or get a cooler long enough to mount just over the air damn that leads air to the radiator. I don't foresee any reason why that wouldn't work also and not raise engine temps to much. Your car has dual fans right? Should be just fine.
    Larry:
    1996 camaro- Ole Blue. the very very very long time consuming project car
    1997 camaro- VIPER- turbov6camaro, search the forum for more info
    1979 Mustang Cobra - dad passed and left it to me, gonna be a clean street/strip car
    2014 Silverado CCSB 4x4 LTZ diamond white. Daily driver

  10. #9
    Ahh .. I have never heard of this. Seems like it can work to me.

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  11. #10
    (╯°□°)╯︵ /(.□ . \) Sparky's Avatar
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    Skimmed it, will read in more detail later. But it makes sense now.
    - Jared
    1999 Camaro 3.8L A4. Cammed, so kind of fast.
    2007.5 Silverado LT Z71 5.3L 4x4. Slight lift, bigger-ish tires, not a slouch but slower than the car.


  12. #11
    Gonna eat me some peaches Driver_10's Avatar
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    By producing negative pressure in the crankcase, you allow better ring sealing since the negative pressure will allow the rings to expand a bit tighter in the bore during compression (works well with low tension engine rings). This also reduces blow-by quite substantially too.

    Also, by removing extra atmosphere from the crankcase, the crankshaft will spin with less resistance which all adds up to more spare hp.

    A dry-sump oiling system accomplishes this and more since it also moves the oil out of the crankcase along with extra atmosphere. By eliminating oil-slosh and reducing power robbing drag, an engine can receive as much as 40hp alone from using a good dry-sump system and a sealed, vacuumed crankcase. (with low tension rings of course)

    As for an electric vacuum pump... flow and force is the issue. A motor with a fan or impeller can move a decent volume of air as long as there is no real force involved. A positive displacement pump such as an air compressor would be needed.

    I have no real idea how to calculate ring blow-by, but I know as a fact that it takes a minimum 3-stage, dry-sump, pump to even manage a small 7hg of crankcase vacuum. A 12v electric "positive displacement" pump barely moves enough air to inflate a basketball in a reasonable amount of time, let alone remove the atmoshpere from a hot engine crankcase with air leaking into it from the piston rings.

    And for an electric PS pump... voltage will not be a real issue, but Amperage may be. I've worked on forklifts that use electric power-steering. A typical power-steering pump uses somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 amps. I have no idea how much would be needed to be feasible for an average street driven car, but it would need to be able to move enough fluid under force to fill the cylinder in the power steering rack at the same rate as your steering input would require.

    You dont want a car that you couldn't make a u-turn in a 3400lbs car because your waiting for the pump to catch up. The electric power steering idea may work, but the engine crank vacuum is a pipe-dream.
    Last edited by Driver_10; 12-26-2013 at 10:27 PM. Reason: corrected a number
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  13. #12
    (V) (;,,; (V) Sandman's Avatar
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    Why not manual steering?
    Justin
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  14. #13
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    Why not just do a full up dry-sump setup?
    1997 Camaro - sold
    2013 WRX - the awd DD

  15. #14
    ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ) triple_l82's Avatar
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    Why not unicorn dust?
    Larry:
    1996 camaro- Ole Blue. the very very very long time consuming project car
    1997 camaro- VIPER- turbov6camaro, search the forum for more info
    1979 Mustang Cobra - dad passed and left it to me, gonna be a clean street/strip car
    2014 Silverado CCSB 4x4 LTZ diamond white. Daily driver

  16. #15
    Hunting for 10's
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    Why not

    97 camaro A4, HEADS, CAM, INTAKES BY WOT-TECH -Straight intake w/ cable TB
    536 rwhp @ 15psi On E-85 Tuned by Excessive Autosports, Sioux Falls, SD.
    If you cant afford to do it right the first time. Can you afford to do it a second time????
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