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Thread: 3.4/3500 Round Two

  1. #31
    Well long time no see! Haha. Great to see some progress again man! Keep up the good work!

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  3. #32
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    I know, it's been awhile since i decided to start back on this engine! The goal is to have this car up and running before this winter.

  4. #33
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    20140731_143042.jpg

    Here is a pic to show that the pistons are installed. Never did get to install the heads or cam since i was out this weekend. I did remove the crank scraper and install it on the correct side. Turns out i had to do quite a bit more filing away on the scraper so that it would clear two rods during rotation. Spent a couple hours filing the scraper, cleaning it, test fitting it, measuring, and repeat.
    Last edited by koolcamaro; 08-03-2014 at 11:49 PM.

  5. #34
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    Comp Cam

    Here is a pic where I installed the Comp Cam. Because i got shavings in the engine and had to take it apart and clean the whole block, I made sure to wash the cam in hot soapy water. Then I lubed it up liberally with clevite bearing guard (my choice of assembly lube). So far what is holding me up is waiting on a set of pioneer cylinder head dowel pins. Once those arrive, I will go ahead and install the expensive 3500 heads(lots of money invested) with the arp studs. Stay tuned.
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  6. #35
    Was hoping one of you experts could reply to my post about this swap that I posted in the sticky version of this swap thread here:

    http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums...th-pics)/page5

    Thanks!

  7. #36
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    Oil pump, heads, ARP studs

    Back from vacation.........PM sent to knuckles and there is also a guy in the for sale section that has all the top end parts you need. As for my status, I have the stock replacement melling oil pump and pickup installed on my engine. Wasn't that easy getting that pickup screen installed with a wrench and hammer, but we got it in there. Freezing the screen and heating up the oil pump helps out. To make sure it never comes loose, we brazed the pickup screen to the oil pump. That's right, we brazed instead of tack welding with a MIG. Trying to weld cast iron and steel together with a MIG has been known to break at the weld in other people's engines. So the recommended way to do this is either braze it or use a TIG.

    My freshly rebuilt 3500 heads have also been installed with ARP studs. The 3500 heads have a competition port/polish, Manley SS valves, yellow LS6 valve springs, and Manley retainers/keepers by WOT-tech. The valve job and milling performed by TES in lubbock, TX. When installing the ARP studs I had to coat the bottom of the studs with permatex PTFE sealant since one of the threaded holes had rusted through from the water jacket side. I guess that's what I get for rebuilding a junkyard short block (sigh).

    Most of the core plugs are also installed btw. When you install core plugs, I recommend that you use Permatex thread sealant. I did a lot of research to find out the best sealant. RTV is not recommended in case it gets in the oil system and teflon/PTFE is also not recommended. The permatex thread sealant seems the safest if it does happen to get into the oil system unlike the other sealants.

    Currently waiting on a replacement timing chain dampener before I finish the install of my cloyes double roller timing chain. After that, the timing cover and oil pan will be installed and next step will be to measure what size pushrods I need so that i may order them from Comp Cams. Will try and upload pics another day.
    Last edited by koolcamaro; 10-09-2014 at 12:47 AM.

  8. #37

  9. #38
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    Got back from another vacation. Anyone know the torque spec of the two 1/8" oil gallery core plugs located in the lifter valley? I have looked everywhere on google, WOT-tech, and this forum. The only torque specs i can find are the 3/8" core plugs which are 24 ft lbs and the 1/4" core plugs which are 14 ft lbs.
    Last edited by koolcamaro; 11-21-2014 at 10:12 PM.

  10. #39
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    If they're the same threads they probably use the same torque spec.

  11. #40
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    I just ended up snugging them up. Back when i had the engine completely apart i chased the 1/8 core plug threads with the wrong chaser and didn't realize until i went to install the plugs. I was forced to used the correct tap to bring the threads back to the proper spec. Almost ruined the engine if i had messed up those threads. Had to vacuum all the little shavings with a straw taped to the vacuum cleaner. Not to happy about that, but just glad the threads were still useable.

  12. #41
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    I did some measuring earlier this week with my Comp Cams adjustable pushrod. Very easy to do even with non adjustable roller rocker arms. All i did was torque the rocker arms to 14 ft lbs plus 30 degrees. Then proceeded to turn the engine over until the respective lifter was sitting at the base of the cam lobe. Then take my 5.8" comp cams pushrod and count the number of turns it takes to hit zero lash. Sometimes it was tricky since it might end at half a turn or a quarter of a turn. If that was the case, then i broke it down even further to be as accurate as possible. Unfortunately, the eight inch digital calipers i got from harbor freight was junk so i relied solely on the adjustable pushrod. What i found out next was shocking.

    The measurements i got needed for the exhaust pushrods was 6.225 to 6.250 for zero lash. The intake pushrods was 5.9 to 5.9125 for zero lash. This is after having .008 shaved off the heads from the machine shop. The reason why this was so shocking is that these measurements explain why i had engine problems such as misfires, running hot, and shutting down back when i first ran the 3.4/3500 with 11.5 compression. I sort of blamed it on the compression, but now i know that i had been running pushrods that were too long. I ran pushrods for a '91 cavalier and the specs on those were 6.042 and 6.389 and that, of course, includes preload. So i was running about .1 too long on the exhaust and around .08 too long on intake. I believe these must have caused the problem. I do remember john mentioning that the cavalier pushrods were a tad bit too long so many years ago. They are dang close though and if someone was to use adjustable rocker arms then they would work.

    After gathering my measurements, i went ahead and looked around on summit racing since comp cams and crane cams didn't have anything on the shelf for me and custom pushrods was't an option as that is rather expensive for what i am doing right now. I settled with some ford racing 6.272 pushrods for the exhaust which will give me between .022 and .047 of preload. For the intake i ordered melling 5.958 pushrods which gives me between .045 and .058 of preload. Its sort of funny how the exhaust pushrods are on the low side and the intake pushrods are on the high side of the recommended .020 and .060 of preload. All in all it cost me $65 for all the pushrods and i am going to have 10 extra ford racing pushrods since it came in a pack of 16 for a v8.
    Last edited by koolcamaro; 11-21-2014 at 09:46 PM.

  13. #42
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  14. #43
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    Oil pan has been installed with fel pro gasket along with other small things such as rear main seal and oil filter adapter. Might i mention that when installing the fel pro oil pan gasket that the rear main cap corners must be trimmed or else it will leak and it won't sit flush. I cut a little too much on purpose so that i could use sealant. It says in the instructions not to use any sealant, but i felt it necessary to use it on the four corners. My choice of sealant was the blue hylomar which is awesome and will not damage the engine if it gets inside unlike silicone/RTV.

    Also got the engine installed in the car. It was a royal pain in the butt installing it through the top. I ended up having to raise the hood by disconnecting the shocks, then i had to remove the driver side wheel so i could get my shop crane there as it wasn't long enough to reach from the front ( and it was still barely long enough from the side), then i tried maneuvering then engine under the cowl with an engine load leveler along with a jack on the oil pan with a piece of wood. Eventually i got the engine on the engine mounts, but it was at the cost of a few scratches, but luckily i didnt break anything.

  15. #44
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    Pushrods are holding me up right now. Got a set of pushrods in the mail and they were off by about .020 which is a big deal. So i sent them back and got a different brand. This time around I ordered Melling 5.958 pushrods and Comp Cams 6.300 pushrods. Also had a custom pilot bushing made for the future T56. Basically, i bought an extended SBC oil-lite bronze pilot bushing on ebay. Then i had it turned down on a lathe so that half of it resembled a 3.4 pilot bushing. If i was to install it as is, it would stick out past the crank 14mm. That might be too much, but I'll find out when the time comes to measure everything out.

  16. #45
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    Finally finished the 3.4/3500 engine build this past monday. Haven't kept you guys posted as I was running out of time since I was trying to move out of my apartment at the same time so that I could travel across the U.S. to attend school in Florida. Well, the engine would turn and had oil pressure, but it wouldn't run. I turned it a few times before i realized that it wasn't getting spark. It had around 50 psi of fuel pressure, it has air, just no spark. I tried relocating a ground i had on the aluminum head with no luck, and checked the fuses and other small things. I didn't have my auto X-ray scanner on me or else i could have found out the problem right away. So for now, the car is sitting in the storage unit until Spring Break. Ill go back west and try and troubleshoot the problem then. Should be something small like a ground, missed connection, or maybe a sensor went bad although i find that strange since it was all good before the rebuild. Turns out this is a pretty common problem after an engine rebuild after doing a google search. Oh well, I'll get to run the beast in two months. For now, this thread is paused.

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