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Thread: Aluminum Head Swap Info (with pics)

  1. #1
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    Aluminum Head Swap Info (with pics)

    Ok so here -- once and for all -- im going to explain why aluminum heads are better than the iron ones. Its really really simple.

    They flow better.

    How much better you ask? Well let me put it this way. I found a flowbench sheet for a set of 3100 (3.1 Gen II Aluminum) heads from a friend of mine that knows the 3x00 engine backwards and forwards. The 3100 heads (Gen II) come with the same valves as our stock iron heads, 1.72/1.43 (intake/exhaust). However the valves are canted, which helps airflow at higher rpms because the valves dont get in the way of each other, and keeps the air flowing well.

    The exhaust ports have been D shaped instead of O shaped. The difference also allows for better airflow at higher RPMs, while maintaining good flow at lower RPMs as well.

    Now all said and done -- these heads, the Gen II aluminum heads found on any 1996 Grand Am GT -- flow as much as a set of 900.00 ported iron heads.

    I took the flowcharts my one friend gave me, and then talked to Tiago of Force Fed Fabrications. He gave me flow charts for his fully ported iron heads. Worked on by Norris Racing Tech (and I personally know this for a fact), a LOT of research went into these heads to make them flow optimally - including researching larger valve sizes and port shapings and everything.

    In the end they were made to flow 158cfm on the intake side @ .500 lift and 142cfm on the exhaust side @ .500 lift. (the flow on the aluminum is better all around, but ill just show this cause its what i remember...off the top of my head).

    I took the stock flowbench from the Gen II heads, and found them to flow 162cfm @ .500 intake and 139cfm @ .500 exhaust.

    Wow is what I said. We are talking about a stock aluminum head, one that hasnt been ported or polished or gasketmatched. One that has all the stock casting flaws and everything -- flowing as much as a completely ported Iron head. Again:

    Fully Ported Iron Heads (@.500" lift):
    158cfm Intake / 142cfm Exhaust

    Stock Aluminum Heads (@.500" lift):
    162cfm Intake / 139cfm Exhaust

    Thats insane. I can only imagine what a set of ported aluminum heads would flow -- and I plan to have it checked when I get mine ported.

    What that means, is that if I took one of Tiagos turbo kits and threw it on my car, I would get the same results he has. Without any of the work. And it can only go up from there. Get It?

    There is no strength problems, my car never overheats, and the aluminum topend actually shaves off a LOT of weight. One of the aluminum heads weighs maybe 20-25 lbs. ONE of the iron heads feels like it weighs around 40-50 lbs. means you are losing 50lbs right there just by switching. After using these heads on my car, I will never put the iron paperweights back on.

    That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Aluminum heads on your 3.4L RWD engine is the BEST "bolt-on" (yes its a bolt on cause they bolt right up with very little modification) you can do. Hands down. Update to the newer technology and toss the 10-year old crap that GM decided to stick with when they put the engine together.

    Just my .02.

    -R

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  3. #2
    Former Mod FastPacedGTP's Avatar
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    you're prolly going to confuse people as your data/info is way wrong.

    gen I FWD 80-87? iron head
    gen II FWD 87-93 aluminum head "MPFI"
    gen III FWD 94+ aluminum head "SFI"
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  4. #3
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    I'll just clarify this for everyone.

    THERE ARE SEVERAL SETS OF HEADS that you can find out there in the world.

    The first set was found on most of the 60* v6's available in GM's lineup in the 1980's. The 2.8L was featured in a LOT of cars, including f-bodies and even the FIERO.

    Here are the different types.

    Inline Cylinder Heads:
    The In-line heads started on the 2.8, featured 1.60 intake and 1.30 exhaust valves w/50cc Combustion Chamber.

    They then changed in 1985, using larger valves, (1.72 intake/1.42 exhaust) but still the in-line heads. Both the RWD and FWD engines got the same heads.

    These heads continued to be used on all RWD motors all the way to 1995.
    (Interestingly enough I cant find the date on when they changed the heads to 53cc - as is listed in GM's spec sheet on the 3.4L V6 RWD motor)

    Splayed (canted) Valve Heads:
    The Splayed valve heads first appeared in 1987 on the FWD motors, changing the combustion chamber size DOWN to 28cc.

    they look like:


    Those are the Gen II Aluminum heads, with O shaped exhaust ports. In 1993 GM introduced the "Gen III" Aluminum cylinder heads with 1.72 intake and 1.42 exhaust valves. They changed the exhaust ports to a D shape to promote higher-rpm exhaust flow (like on the BBC). They look like:




    the other side is similar to the "Gen II" Aluminum heads. Now I'll admit that I was a bit confused about the "naming" of these heads -- perhaps why I got confused here, is because there are TWO sets of Gen III Aluminum heads. One is pictured above and has the D shaped ports but with 1.72 intake valves and STAMPED STEEL ROCKER ARMS. You dont want these, they dont flow as well. The Others lack the guideplates on the other side due to the fact that they use ROLLER bearings in the pivot point (not sure what this is called but you get the idea) and 1.760" intake valves for a better flow.

    These came out in 1996 and are Gen III LATEST release heads, they are superior to anything that came on the 3.4L RWD motor.

    (thanks for editing my post FastPacedGTP - please dont do it again without asking me.)

  5. #4
    Former Mod FastPacedGTP's Avatar
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    i've had my share of 60*'s and once was asked to come on the 60degreev6.com team.

    I wasn't trying to disprove you, I was trying to make sure people didn't get confused. I know the cut-off dates between gens and when what motor was used in what changed, I was going of the most popular platform, the w-bodies.

    I know you did your homework, I did once too, but I have no need to retain that from memory anymore, so I can't delve into specifics like valve size, etc.

    I also know that there were two gen III aluminum heads.

    the 94-95
    and the slightly different 96+ w/ full roller rockers, and the 3400 heads w/ the larger exhaust valve, etc.

    Ben from 60* also found thru testing that the power differences between the (92)94-95 and the later were actually fairly minimal but for a rebuilder, to port both and come up w/ virtually identical results.

    I may actually refer things slightly different to you, as I'm used to looking at the motor as a whole, not just the heads, the induction, etc...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  6. #5
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    Some insight into the 3.4L OHV RWD motor

    Hi there. Lots of you know me if you have been here a while. A lot of you don't know me either. My name is Russell and I have been here since FTV6.com pretty much got it's start. I have owned a 3.4L Chevy Camaro since 1996 and have been on a "quest for more power" since I bought it. It's peppy enough from the get go with a manual transmission but the automatic is lacking a little bit. Even with the manual, it still has issues putting out enough power to push the massive 3250lbs that is the car itself. When you add speakers or anything else this becomes a serious hinderance to the car in terms of performance.

    I have seen posts regarding the 3.4L engine, and I have seen both facts and fiction on this motor thrown around in an attempt to sway people one way or the other. Thats not what I'm trying to accomplish here. Here is my honest opinion about the 3.4L OHV (204ci) RWD engine that comes in the 1993-1995 F-body (Camaro/Firebird). Most of you will be like "oh great whatever". Those of you that know that I have been here and most often won't post in a thread unless I have something important to voice on the matter will stop and read this. And a few of you will be genuinely curious to know what it is I'm trying to convey. Pull up something to drink and some popcorn, this promises to be a long thread.

    --

    I have done my share of research on this engine. I even contacted GM and asked them for any information they had on the car. They promptly sent me the GM Rebuild Kit for the 1994 Chevrolet Camaro. It didn't cost me a thing and this little packet included every bit of information, original brochures from 1994, a full detailed listing of all options and factory information on every part of the engine, car, chassis, etc.

    It was here that I began, studying and calculating and realizing the first thing about the motor. GM Lied. It wasn't a big lie. The motor is advertised at 207 Cubic Inches, but using valid formulas for calculating CID I came up short at only 204. I rechecked several times and came to the conclusion that GM rounded up the engine size because in reality, the "3.4L" engine is really only 3.35 Liters. Now .05 Liters isnt a huge deal..but when you start with so little, every bit counts.

    Armed with this information I began signing up to different boards and clubs with the hopes of finding people who had begun to modify the car and make it work better. I came across a lot of owners who were frustrated because they hadn't found anything created by the aftermarket and had given up and advised me to do the same. My Camaro, is honestly my first car. It's the first car I ever purchased and still runs strong to this day. I didn't let anyone's dismay sway me from my goal of making my car work better for me, and not go out and try to win any awards for the most horsepower or torque or anything like that. When I discovered RKSport and their aftermarket products for the 3.4L, my hopes perked up because I realized that if I saved up enough money I could make my car work better. I began to research different engine shops in the area and stumbled across Norris Racing Tech (NRT) with their 3500 package which promised to make the engine a 3.5 Liter and give you the best performance you could get. But at 3000.00 for the engine package + shipping/handling I wrote that off.

    Now I have to digress a little because I realize I skipped a very important point. Most 3.4L owners try too hard. You think that you can take your 3.4L V6 and run out and make it faster than any car on the road. That’s not going to happen. There will always be, whether you own a 3.4L v6 - a 3.8L v6 - a LT1 - LS1 – Vette – Viper – Porsche – Ferrari, a car faster than yours. The thing I realized that if I built the car for me, if I did things I wanted and questioned the conventional wisdom of “that won’t work” I would stumble across the magical mod that would give me a massive boost in the right direction. I stayed on these boards for years, watching people come on and ask, “what’s the best intake, what’s the best exhaust...” and all those things. I watched people rise and get incredible gains and saw people I knew push the limits of the engine and develop supercharger and turbocharger kits for the 3.4L, as well as take and add nitrous to it. There were a couple of “loch ness” stories about a mythical 3.4L out there running 9’s in the mile, but that person never signed up to this board or any others that I have visited, so that person remains a mystery as to whether or not they really exist.

    Getting back to my topic – When I realized that I would have to work harder and think more because the things that people were doing weren’t really accomplishing much, I turned to the actual engine design and I looked at several options. I then realized, in 1999, that Pontiac’s Grand Am GT was making 175hp/205tq from a 3.4L OHV FWD motor. I did research into this engine and found that GM had worked a different path on this motor and it was better than the 3.4 RWD. I did more research into engine design and found that runner lengths help determine how much power and torque the engine gets. I looked at the plenum and runner design on the “3400” engine as well as the 3.4 RWD and realized that the RWD runners were jokes. At only 2” long and without any type of airflow acceleration present, they looked like all they served was a means to get the air from the Y shaped plenum, which once I saw a cross section – laughed at, to the cylinders. That was when I decided then and there that the plenum and air intake system was the 3.4L’s weak point. GM had spent money into making the 3.4 into a “Race style” motor. At 60 degrees the Angle of the V shape is natural. EXACTLY replicating the letter V, the angle between cylinders is 60*. The crankshaft in a six cylinder v-type engine has three throws of 120 degrees. With this combination, it makes the engine perfectly internally balanced. No bad vibrations, hence the lack of balance shaft that the 90 degree 3.8 or 3800 series II engine needs to employ to keep the motor from rubbing things the wrong way.

    With that in mind, I kept looking into what I could do to increase the natural power of the engine. And I realized that the FWD heads and intake manifold were direct bolt-on parts. The holes all lined up, and they were aluminum which would shave weight off of the engine. Combined with their increased flow (I had no idea how much at the time) they would add a lot of power to an engine that was struggling. So I did more research and found that the iron heads that came with the RWD engine had been used since the original 2.8L engine came out. No changes had been made by GM. Not till they tried to use the 3.4L as a viable engine for the FWD cars did GM even consider making the 3.4L into a “performance” engine. Because of that the 3.4L has become the laughing stock of the F-body world. Many people have tried to make this engine perform better and succeeded, and many more have failed. Simply because they aren’t thinking before they throw parts at the motor. Most people think, “I can get an exhaust or intake and it’ll make the car work great!” This isn’t always the case. Most often it requires planning to increase the airflow of the engine to efficiently use such parts. Why? Because the 3.4L is anemic to begin with – GM thought that they could simply increase the bore and stroke of the engine and throw a “performance cam” into it and it would work fine. This isn’t the case because the plenum and air intake and exhaust systems are so poorly designed that it suffocates the motor without anyone giving it a second thought. While everyone is putting bigger throttle bodies and porting and polishing heads, they are neglecting the most important idea – “you engine only flows as well as the worst bottleneck.” With that in mind, ponder this thought: I asked James Montigny for his flowbench data from Norris Racing Tech on his heads. And then I asked a good friend of mine who specializes in the FWD 60 degree motor for a stock flowbench of the “3100” heads I had pulled from a 1996 3.1L engine and put on my car.

    The results shocked me. The stock heads from a 1996 FWD 3.1L engine flowed as good as the heads that were bolted to Tiago’s car (many of you know him as the one who developed a turbocharger for the 3.4L and pushed it to the edge). Tiago had gotten his heads from James Montigny previously and James had the NRT engine package. I went to NRT’s site to learn that the full engine package came with the 900.00 option full port/polish and valve job. You can digest that for a minute before carrying on. GM had managed to work the heads on the FWD engines so perfectly that they flowed as well as taking a set of the iron heads and paying someone to R&D a perfect portjob on them. 900.00. Using the aluminum heads means you have 900.00 to use elsewhere.

    The fact that the runners are super short makes for more problems being that there is no way the engine is capable of any top end power, hence the problem with the engine “dying” at 4500 rpm. Ask any 3.4L owner and they will tell you that the engine seems to top out around 4500 rpm. While most people are ok with this, the tachometer shows that the engine has a rev potential of 5500 rpm and a redline of 7k. This is due to the forged steel connecting rods in the engine that can take more abuse than most. The other thing GM didn’t think of – fuel supply. While 16lb injectors come stock on the 2.8-3.4L engine, they are only capable of supplying the engine with enough fuel for a max of 160 hp. (sound familiar?) After you go past 160 hp, the injectors begin to become less and less efficient, costing the driver more in terms of gas mileage and not really working to their full potential. Putting larger injectors helps a good deal.

    All this said, it seems to be that the 3.4L engine is a stout powerplant with untapped potential. I proved this when I bolted the aluminum heads to the block itself. Using a stock 3.4L RWD engine block I mated the Gen III aluminum heads and 3100 intake (1996 model year) along with the fuel rails and larger injectors, the stock 3400 throttle body (50mm, just like the RWD stock tb) and adding RKSport headers (due to the fact that nothing else fit that would work in the RWD engine bay, pacesetter headers would work just as well) I realized a gain in the form of 27RWHP and 30RWTQ. (thats from 140rwhp -> 167rwhp and 183rwtq -> 203 rwtq). Once I took the cutout plate off to open the exhaust fully, it gave me another 3 horsepower and 3 torque (both rearwheel) taking me to 170RWHP and 207RWTQ. That’s a 30 RWHP gain and 24 RWTQ gain. Factor in 15% drivetrain loss and that comes to 200 horsepower at the engine. Now when I started, stock engine save for the 3” catback exhaust and K&N FIPK – I had dynoed at 140RWHP and 183RWTQ – that’s 164 HP and 215 TQ at the crank. Just updating the heads and intake from the restrictive version that GM put on there in 1993-1995 to the ones they were currently using in 1996 gave me an increase of 36 hp and 30 tq (170rw=>200c / 207rw=>245c) over what came from the factory. Then I decided to upgrade to the “3400” parts. I made sure I got a set of heads used on the 1999+ Grand Am GT, which featured bigger valves and roller rocker arms built in, as well as larger runners and ports on the plenum as well as an increased plenum size. I still haven’t dynoed the current setup that I’m running, but it’s enough that to date I have beaten a 1996 Convertible Z28 that was going all out to catch up to me and couldn’t until I decided to let off the gas a little. A 3.4L with parts from GM’s factory shelves, complete with casting flaws – keeping the car from being caught by a stock 1996 Z28. To me that’s a major achievement. I can get the owner of the Z28 to come on here and back me up if you need proof, I’m sure he would help me out. He’s one of the members of my car club.

    I guess the point of all this is that I’m tired of people giving up on this engine. Its got a lot of potential but it is a challenge. You can’t just slap parts on it like you can with the V8. Even the 3.8 is a challenge but the 3.4 has so many design flaws that it comes across as a failure when it simply needs to be “woken up”. I’m tired of hearing that making the 3.4L perform is impossible – it isn’t. If it was then neither myself or Tiago would have gotten any results from our testing and working so hard. It is a challenge though. And it’s not an easy one at that. Lots of time and effort have to be put into it. So if you think you are up to the challenge of making something cool and custom, then stay with the 3.4 and realize your own personalized car at the end. If you want an easy way out, sell your car and buy a V8. I really don’t care either way. But sooner or later everyone will realize that the 3.4 isn’t as bad as they think. If GM had put a little more thought into the 3.4L like they did with the 3800 Series II – then the 3.4 would have been rated in the top 10 engines of all time. 200 hp is achievable in “stock” form. I’ve done it. Can you?

    Further discussion: http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=399894

  7. #6
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    FTV6 EXCLUSIVE! - 3400 Head Swap for 3.4L RWD Writeup

    Ok ppl. I'm bored and I remembered I promised the 3.4 owners that I would do some kind of writeup, and I've been lagging on making a word document, so - I'll just post the thing here. This will be a step-by-step writeup as I remember changes that I did to the engine. This happened in 2001 so it might take a while before I get all of the information up here.

    Please don't muck up this instruction set with posts inside of it - if you have any questions (any at all about anything) PM me and I will answer them. If I feel they havent been asked before or are relevant to the process I will add them to this post kind of like eBay does with questions asked on bids.

    I would like to keep this as clean as possible. Once again: This wont be completed all at once. I will add to it as I go - I will post it here first for the mods/admins to make this a sticky on the site, but it will also move to my car club site in my Newsletter section. My URL is in my signature. Happy reading!

    Gen III ("3400") Aluminum Head Swap Required Parts:

    (If you want to start slightly less expensive, you can find parts from a 3100 engine, like I did, a 1996 Grand Am GT. These parts are also available on various other cars.)

    From a 2000+ 3400 Grand Am GT:
    Gen III Aluminum Heads
    Plenum (Upper Intake Manifold)
    Lower Intake Manifold
    Fuel Rail
    Fuel Injectors
    Throttle Body
    Water Neck

    Other Parts:
    RKSport 3.4L Headers
    GM 3-Wire Temperature Sensor (p/n: 10096181)
    GM 3-Wire Temperature Sensor Plug (p/n: 12102748)
    Aeroquip NPT-AN Adapter (Available @ summitracing.com: p/n coming soon)
    Aeroquip Socketless Hose Ends (Available @ summitracing.com: p/n coming soon)

    Preperation

    Things must be done before you just slap the heads and intake onto the 60 V6 RWD block. I would definitely make sure you have the following items (as they will need to be replaced):

    1 Oil Filter
    4-5 Quarts Mobil 1 10w30 Synthetic

    Also make sure you have new o-rings for the injectors just in case you break/lose any, and I would recommend getting a new thermostat (not needed

    You will need to remove the engine to do this swap, so make sure you have/rent a engine hoist (it can be done through the hood, I have done so)

    (Note: Now is a good time to change your clutch if its worn, or to replace motor mounts, wiring harnesses, other equipment that the engine may be in the way of. )

  8. #7
    Offical FTV6 Troll andrew.brandon's Avatar
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    2014 Toyota Tacoma 4.0L V6
    2013 Harley Davidson Iron 883
    2006 Pontiac GTO 6.0L, 6 Speed, Blue on Blue SOLD
    1995 Pontiac Firebird 3.4L V6 SOLD

  9. #8
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    Heres a brief history of the dynos ive done:

    <stock dyno>
    • K&N FIPK
    • Accel 8.8mm Wires
    • Accel U-Groove plugs
    • Knife-edged and Polished TB
    • 3" Catback Exhaust (Flowmaster 3 chamber...no series)
    • 9.0:1 Compression Ratio
    • Auburn Posi w/3.23:1 Gearing
    • 140.2 rwhp / 183 rwtq (164 hp / 215 tq @ the crankshaft (motor) )
    <3100 Swap (first setup - pics on http://camaro.adwire.com/modpics)>
    • K&N FIPK
    • Accel 8.8mm Wires
    • Accel U-Groove plugs
    • 3" Catback Exhaust (Flowmaster 3 chamber...no series)
    • Cutout, fully open
    • Gen III Aluminum heads, 1996 3100 intake manifold(s), 19# fuel injectors, 2000 3400 throttle body
    • 9.6:1 Compression Ratio
    • RKSport Headers
    • Mac Torque Arm
    • OEM Clutch
    • Auburn Posi w/3.23:1 Gearing
    • 170.6 rwhp / 207.3 rwtq (200 hp / 243 tq @ the crankshaft (motor) )
    <3400 w/cam + mods>
    • K&N FIPK
    • MSD 8.5mm Wires
    • 3" Catback Exhaust (Flowmaster 3 chamber...no series)
    • Cutout, fully open
    • Gen III Aluminum heads, 1996 3100 intake manifold(s), 19# fuel injectors, 2000 3400 throttle body
    • 9.6:1 Compression Ratio
    • RKSport Headers
    • Mac Torque Arm
    • Comp Cams custom grind (114/212/218)
    • Spec Stage 3 Clutch
    • Zexel-Torsen Posi w/3.23:1 Gearing
    • 184 rwhp / 212 rwtq (216 hp / 250 tq @ the crankshaft (motor) )

  10. #9
    Since it isn't locked, allow me to provide further insight...

    http://www.domesticcrew.com/hybrid.html

    Originators of the hybrid GenII/GenIII swap. Another swap that has been done is the GenII/GenI top end swap, which is here, http://www.turboz24.com
    Curtis went with the Iron heads because it was necessary with the camshaft he is/was running.

    The gen IIII 2000+ 3100 heads and manifolds share the large port design of the 3400 pieces, while the gen III <2000 3100 heads/manifold are the small port version, and almost not worth swapping.

    Black, did you have to use custom pushrods??

    Enjoy

    Henry

  11. #10
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    3.4/3400 project Tech Info (with Pics)

    I have posted this on a few V6 tech sites. Figure and body with a 3.4 may be interested. the only thing I don't mention is the pistons...the 00+ pistons are a MUST HAVE!!! I believe I was told 13.98:1 CR with stock pistons.

    OK I've taken the time to get together some pictures and info on the 3400 top end. Before I started this project on my car. I spent nearly eight months researching the various cams, clutches, and other assorted goodies for the 3.4 RWD block. Shown nearly bare here

    The 3.4 RWD block was the biggest of the 60* V6s but was only 30hp stronger than the 2.8. thats because the iron heads from the Gen1 2.8 managed to make they're way to the 93-95 F-body 3.4.

    These heads are shown here


    and


    The second issue was with the poor intake manifold design. the Runners in the lower intake were too short to account for any kind of intake acceleration.

    Runners shown here


    Now in my time researching ways to boost the out-put of the 3.4 with help from a member here I found a very detailed thread on a top end project that was not done by anyone but one guy. This out lined the benefits of the newer aluminum 3400 heads that were not only a direct bolt on but increased the power greatly. The 3400 heads had much larger valves a much smaller combustion chamber and much larger intake/exhaust runners.

    The heads are shown here


    and



    You'll notice in the second picture the heads come factory with beehive valve springs which allows for a greater rev-potential, and 1.6:1 rockers. Now to take care of the intake, the 3400 intake manifold has 9in runners that are of a much larger diameter allowing for far better flow and aims the fuel injectors directly at the heads.

    Shown here


    and



    Once all together gains of near 40hp were achieved putting the car at 170RWHP being 200hp at the flywheel. But that was with a stock tune and cam. I've come across a fairly large cam and am waiting on a computer system to get the absolute most out of this block. I'll have more info to post later.
    Thanks

  12. #11
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    Don't forget you need to change the pistons as well. With the bore of a 3.4, 3500 heads and intake can be used to enhance flow even more. I have comparison pics of the 3.1 and 3400 top ends, and the 3500 top will be here later in the week, and I will be adding it to the lineup as well.

    http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums...ad.php?t=29666

    http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t...bird/headpics/

    EDIT: Also I would like to add that 3400/3100 heads after 2000 got bigger valves and bigger ports. Casting numbers are 170 and 487, called "big port castings" lots of people in the FWD world are swapping their earlier heads for the big port design.

    Bubba, those aluminum heads look kind of rough, lol, get you some LSx yellow springs and you can get a few extra RPMs out of your engine. Many guys with the 3400/3500 tops are getting 7k with no float using them.

    Spring GM part number: 12586484
    Shims Comp Cams part number : 4737-16
    Cavalier 2.2 valve seals FelPro part number : SS 10816

    '99 and older heads will require Gen1 iron head valve seals.

    This info is not my own, but quoted from TurboGT on 60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=34256

  13. #12
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    I just did a search for those parts. The correct number for the valve seals is SS70816. Just an update for everyone.

  14. #13
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    OK, I told you I would be back with the info I promised.

    If you get a set of 1.7 RR for a Ford SB, then they will fit a 3x00 top end.

    If your top end is after 2003, then you will need the 8mm to 3/8 adapter studs from comp cams.
    I can't give you a direct link according to forum rules, but paste and copy this...
    lmperformance.com/6342/4.html


    If your top end is from before 2003, then you will need the Crane Cams 10mm to 3/8 adapter stud. Again copy and paste...

    cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNum ber=99148-2&lvl=3&prt=114

    Here are the SBFord rocker I bought and they are a diect fit to either of the adapting studs from the ebay store (CNC Motorsports)....

    cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-CNC-Roller-tip-rocker-arms-1-7-R-3-8_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33624QQihZ010QQitemZ2 00113557995QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

    I already posted in another thread about the LS6 springs, found them on ebay for about $65 new. I also listed the part #'s for the adaptation to the LS6 spings are here on FTV6.

    Fireshadow, I think it's fantastic that a young man is interested in research and development, along with the willingness to learn. My friend and I are starting a full CNC shop. The machine being delivered this week is a Mori Siki CNC machine. It can bar feed up to 3", hand-chuck up to 12" and has a live-tool terret that holds up to five live tools at a time. Also has a chip conveyer and parts bin.

    What's this mean?

    This means we can load 3" stock at one end of the machine and the parts come out the other end. It is a 4 axis mill/lathe in one. All the scrap chips are loaded into a bin, the machine oil/coolant is recycled. I'm planning on prototyping some custom forged pistons and billet rods for some of us 60* guys (updates later) .

  15. #14
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    Lots of comparison pics between the iron, 3400, and 3500 upper ends here...
    http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t...bird/headpics/

    Russel, what is stopping you from upgrading further to 3500 heads? With 3500 heads, you can have a "workable" compression ratio using the stock 8cc dished pistons in the 3.4 (about 11.5:1)? Since I will be putting a turbo back on my car, the larger chambers in the 3500 heads and large dish in the 3400 pistons will result in a boost-friendly 8.9:1 (slightly higher than my stock iron head 3.1), using the stock sized 3500 gaskets (but with adjustable rocker arms can be replaced with the thinner 3.4 heads gasket).

    The Others lack the guideplates on the other side due to the fact that they use ROLLER bearings in the pivot point (not sure what this is called but you get the idea) and 1.760" intake valves for a better flow.
    Many people have the misconception that the "large port" gen3 heads have roller rockers, when in fact they are roller fulcrum (word you were looking for). I have taken the pushrod guides from a "small port" gen3, and the ports are so large in the 2000+ heads, that the port actually interferes with the guides. I will be putting them on the end mill and taking care of that, though. Eventually I will probably make an entirely new piece that locks into the rocker keeper grooves (hopefully to make it easier for others in the future). Another task is making an accesory kit that will bolt to bothe the 3400 and 3500 heads, what did you use for accy brackets, Russel?

    When scavaging for these specific parts, I couldn't believe the difference from the large and small port design. They were visible to the eye (at least at the top of the LIM).

    I am also interested in the pushrods you used, I got a set from a '94 small port motor due to the fact that the early gen3's had harder units that are more suited to the adjustable rocker scenario. Since GM didn't change the cam-to-deck length in the FWD and RWD motors, using the pushrods from the year/model heads came from should be correct (but don't quote me). With the roller fulcrum rockers mounted to a pedistal, there is no room for adjustment and pushrod damage could occur (lots of people mix up the exh and intake rods, only to bend them). My fear of going to the adjustable design is that the smaller 8mm studs found in all late 3x00 heads may be too small for the potential side load that could be created. Perhaps I will be drilling/tapping the rocker studs to allow for the stronger 10mm units.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by some_punk View Post
    I was at work going though some of the cars in the used lot, i was checking this 2005 Malibu maxx, I noticed that it is a drive by wire. If i was to do the 3500 conversion without using the 3400 pistons, would I have to use 92 or 94 octane fuel? and what can you do about the throttle body? can you convert a drive by wire throttle body to cable?
    You can keep the 8mm Camaro pistons and have around 12:1 compression with 3500 heads (with the right cam, possably could run on 94). The TB can be changed for another GM unit with TPS and a stepper IAC, I'll be using a 75mm TB from a Caddy Northstar adapted to pull the cable from the rear. The 3500 also has a returnless fuel rail, and you would either need to convert your fuel system to returnless, or just use a fuel rail from any Gen3 3x00.

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