Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 63

Thread: 3500 top end feedback and info

  1. #16
    Contributing Sponsor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    WOT-Tech Florida
    Posts
    6,822
    Actually the 3500 heads and 3400 pistons makes about 9.1:1 pending head gaskets used.

    A big cam will give you more trouble than the head/piston swap for the ECM.

    Either way, I'm hoping to come up with a setup for you guys in 4th gens to piggyback a GM OBDI ECM since there is so many options and you can buy them for about $40. This way you wire it, put a chip in and go - or fine tune it yourself with a chip burner and/or emulator.

    With less duration, I hope you mean less than, say, a 270 grind. The stock ECM will tolerate a 262 with the 3x00 1.6 rockers, but I would at least suggest to use an adjustable fuel regulator (and wideband if you can swing the funds).

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many

  3. #17
    Lights Up Crew #1 Amagine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    KY
    Posts
    2,886
    Thinking of such a project if you come up with a plug-n-play ecu setup. I'm onto a new job and may pick up a new DD and see if I can swing keeping the 'bird for a project vehicle.
    The advancements your making in the 3500 projects are breathing in some interesting life into a dead series of motor.
    http://www.z99.com/files/u21/lightsaber.jpg

  4. #18
    Light Throttle geartooth94's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    144

    n

    ^
    ^
    ^
    here, here, jon!


  5. #19
    Half Throttle
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Portales, NM
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by geartooth94 View Post
    wow, this is exciting. makes me want to do my swap more and more.

    how much clearance is there between the cowl and plenum? are you going to use the car as a DD or for racing only?

    I'd like to build mine for DD, but that requires use of A/C and I'm a tad worried about reliability with such a high comp. ratio (11.xx:1).
    there isn't much clearance even with the 3400 upper manifold which is what im using. this car was just a daily driver before i did the work. i rarely raced the car, i just wanted more pep and when i read Russel's thread on the hybrid, i got very interested.

    i dont know why you'd be worried about the A/C. you dont have to delete the A/C and i used Rk sport headers(same as Russels) and they fit perfectly. you do have to slot the holes in order for the headers to fit the heads though. As for the comp. ratio, as long as you use a cam big enough to lower your dynamic compression, you will be okay on the street with even 87 octane. my dynamic compression is supposed to be around 8.5 down low and 9.5 up top. i copied Fast355's setup(over on thirdgen.org) and he said that he was running on 87 octane with no signs of detonation. my first cam was a 260 which detonated like crazy. my second cam has turned out great. also, i had the combustion chambers polished to eliminate any hot spots which could cause detonation in a high compressional motor.
    Last edited by koolcamaro; 11-18-2008 at 09:41 PM.

  6. #20
    Half Throttle
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Portales, NM
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by sixbanger View Post
    ok let's back up a bit. You mean that I can slap on some 3500 heads, upper and lower manifolds, 3400 pistons, a camshaft with less duration, along with all necessary hardware to fit the 3500, and i don't have to mess with my ECM?
    if you do go that route, then i wouldnt go any bigger than a 260 on the camshaft. From what Russel said, he beat a 96 z28 convertible with just the 3400 heads, stock tune, and stock cam. imagine the difference with 3500 heads and a slightly larger cam.

    if your interested, i have a Comp 260 cam that i no longer have use for. i only put about 300 or 400 miles on it before i realized i had to pull it out and put another cam in. it had already been broke in, and i had it inspected when i pulled it out by a mechanic. no flat lobes or any excessive wear.

  7. #21
    Half Throttle sixbanger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    365
    I would have to hold off on making any purchases right now since this is my DD and I wouldn't be able to undergo any major projects right now but I just wanted to get an understanding of how this mod could work. Since it's possible to make it work without any ECM modifications I think that would be start, at least for me, before going all out. The first task in my list right now though is finding a cheapy 3.4 around the jy's around here . I'm sure a write would be a great help to A LOT of people. I always get some guys with 3.4's at work and I ask them if they heard of the top end swap and they're like "the what?" hehe
    1993 Chevrolet Camaro 3.4L V6 stock

  8. #22
    Half Throttle
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Portales, NM
    Posts
    475
    i just found something very interesting. lots of you probably already knew. i found out that the computer from a 94/95 beretta or corsica(3100 motor) will hook right up to the camaro wiring harness. its been proven by Funkz and im about to try it. Do you'll know what this means. this means that if you do the alluminum head swap, maintain the stock cam or get a mild cam(260 max), all you have to do for tuning is to swap the ecm for the ones i mentioned. the reason why is because our ecm is tuned for the iron heads which is too much spark for those alluminum heads. i remember reading from Russels threads that he was getting inaudible knocks that were showing up on the Auto Xray. you can keep this from happening by simply making a trip to the JY and grabbing one of these ecms. the fuel tables wont be perfect but should be better than the camaro, which means better fuel economy, and probably emmisions friendly. and AFPR and wideband certainly wouldnt hurt though.

    i know this ecm swap will work on a 5 speed camaro, but im not sure if it will produce problems on an automatic. i have an automatic and should find out in three days( waiting on the mail). i have control over spark on megsquirt, but the spark tables is a little tricky to figure out without a dyno. so im going to try a beretta ecm and just use megasquirt for fuel. tuning fuel is somewhat easy once you study a bit.

  9. #23
    Full Throttle Jore Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In mexico once again
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by koolcamaro View Post
    i just found something very interesting. lots of you probably already knew. i found out that the computer from a 94/95 beretta or corsica(3100 motor) will hook right up to the camaro wiring harness. its been proven by Funkz and im about to try it. Do you'll know what this means. this means that if you do the alluminum head swap, maintain the stock cam or get a mild cam(260 max), all you have to do for tuning is to swap the ecm for the ones i mentioned. the reason why is because our ecm is tuned for the iron heads which is too much spark for those alluminum heads. i remember reading from Russels threads that he was getting inaudible knocks that were showing up on the Auto Xray. you can keep this from happening by simply making a trip to the JY and grabbing one of these ecms. the fuel tables wont be perfect but should be better than the camaro, which means better fuel economy, and probably emmisions friendly. and AFPR and wideband certainly wouldnt hurt though.

    i know this ecm swap will work on a 5 speed camaro, but im not sure if it will produce problems on an automatic. i have an automatic and should find out in three days( waiting on the mail). i have control over spark on megsquirt, but the spark tables is a little tricky to figure out without a dyno. so im going to try a beretta ecm and just use megasquirt for fuel. tuning fuel is somewhat easy once you study a bit.
    ive got an auto but its a 700 r4, will this ecm work for me??

  10. #24
    Half Throttle sixbanger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    365
    So getting a 9.1:1 is that with 3400 pistons (what year?) and stock 3500 parts or ported? I would want to keep the stock tune until later. The only tune I'm thinking is an AFPR if it's possible. What cam and rockers would you recommend to get the best out of the swap with the stocm ECM in mind?
    1993 Chevrolet Camaro 3.4L V6 stock

  11. #25
    Contributing Sponsor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    WOT-Tech Florida
    Posts
    6,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Jore Knight View Post
    ive got an auto but its a 700 r4, will this ecm work for me??
    700r4? What year is your car? This ECM swap is for the E-trans, and should work fine as long as you use an auto ECM

    Quote Originally Posted by sixbanger View Post
    So getting a 9.1:1 is that with 3400 pistons (what year?) and stock 3500 parts or ported? I would want to keep the stock tune until later. The only tune I'm thinking is an AFPR if it's possible. What cam and rockers would you recommend to get the best out of the swap with the stocm ECM in mind?
    Any 3400 has the same dish in the pistons, and you can even leave the rods attached

    Cam will depend on how wild you want to get, but the ECM isn't going to like anything over a 260 grind.

    The 3x00 heads have pedistal style rocker arms and they are 1.6 ratio.

  12. #26
    Half Throttle
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Portales, NM
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by sixbanger View Post
    So getting a 9.1:1 is that with 3400 pistons (what year?) and stock 3500 parts or ported? I would want to keep the stock tune until later. The only tune I'm thinking is an AFPR if it's possible. What cam and rockers would you recommend to get the best out of the swap with the stocm ECM in mind?
    like john said, any 3400. to make it easier, just get 3400 pistons from the years 99-02. they sell these pistons on summitracing.com for $25 a piece which is a bargain. i was about to buy these pistons before i decided on a high compression 3500 head swap. the ecm is up to you, but you can probably get a 94/95 berett/corsica ecm for very cheap at a JY which should give you a better tune=more power and better economy.all that you have to do to take out your ecm is take out 2 10mm screws and disconnect 3 connectors and swap, simple and easy. i know the stock ecm gave Russel 17 mgp with the stock cam. i would guess 20 with the beretta/corsica ecm. yes, 9.1 is with 3400 pistons. i did not have my heads or manifolds ported. i need to do a write up and i plan on it in the next couple of weeks.
    Last edited by koolcamaro; 11-22-2008 at 04:21 PM.

  13. #27
    Full Throttle Jore Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In mexico once again
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by Forced_Firebird View Post
    700r4? What year is your car? This ECM swap is for the E-trans, and should work fine as long as you use an auto ECM
    i have a 91

  14. #28
    Contributing Sponsor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    WOT-Tech Florida
    Posts
    6,822
    Quote Originally Posted by Jore Knight View Post
    i have a 91
    Then, no, you don't want to change your ECM. You already have a tunable '7730 speed density (MAP) ECM. You can use an emulator or get your self a chip burner, and you are alreqady good to go.

  15. #29
    Full Throttle Extreme!
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,318
    Has anyone calculated the actually cost of doing one of these swaps from start to finish? I realize there are many options but I haven't seen any numbers yet.
    This might help in deciding to do one of these swaps. I have to say it is mighty temping.

  16. #30
    Contributing Sponsor
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    WOT-Tech Florida
    Posts
    6,822
    Quote Originally Posted by 3.4 grape of wrath View Post
    Has anyone calculated the actually cost of doing one of these swaps from start to finish? I realize there are many options but I haven't seen any numbers yet.
    This might help in deciding to do one of these swaps. I have to say it is mighty temping.
    That's just the thing. There are so many options and combinations that even I haven't calculated a cost. We generally charge a set per item, then some guys send us valvetrain parts etc, som buy them from us.

    I would guestimate about $7-800 for a fresh top end with the yellow springs etc.

    3500 top ends start at $450 used (non rebuilt), then there's differnt levels of modifications from there.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •