Bad v-6 firebird

[94_firebird]

Ok so here is the deal. I have a 94 firebird and its given me nuthing but problems, ive gobe through 2 transmissions, 2 rear ends, 3 water pumps, blew my power steering and now the pully that held the pump on completely fell of and fucked up my belt, my car is stranded at my girlfriends house. I just bough a Pontiac 5.0 carburated from the 80s, and a 700r4 trans, it all is in very good condition and i picked it up for 150$ froma family friend.Whati need to know is basically everu thign i will need to be able to put this iin my firebird. i do not want to go fuel injected again and i want to completely get rid of the engie computer. i think illneed a new radiator, drive shaft, rear end, and engine mounts. But i dont know exactly what all i will need for this conversion. if any one knows of what all i will need andwear to find it please let me know as soon as possible thanks.

[WarShrike]

This is going to be moved to the conversions thread. Welcome to fullthrottlev6.

[Grimm]

I wouldn't waste time with that swap. It's going to slow, very difficult, and very expensive.

Read this thread on swapping a carb'd v8.

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29396

It's your money and time, but for the effort I would just save up and buy an LT1 and swap that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a computer controlled vehicle. If you take the time to learn them, they actually have a lot of advantages to an older carburated engine.

[Black_Ttop]

I wouldn't waste time with that swap. It's going to slow, very difficult, and very expensive.

Read this thread on swapping a carb'd v8.

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29396

It's your money and time, but for the effort I would just save up and buy an LT1 and swap that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a computer controlled vehicle. If you take the time to learn them, they actually have a lot of advantages to an older carburated engine.

so true! not to mention the 80's 5.0 is well...slow compared to our cars, definatly either swap for a lt1 or newer v6 out of another f-body.

[94_firebird]

no offence to any of you guys but i have had a lot of problems with the v-6 in this car and since the rest of my firebird collection has v-8s i figure why not drop an 8 into this one as well. i do realise that the carbed wouldnt be the best choice but keep in mind i am only 17 and cant afford to buy an LS1, the reason i opted for the carburated v-8 was because i had one sitting around b/c me and my dad pulled it out of my 86 trans am in order to put in the 400. and befor he signed the title over to my name i bought the 5.0. I would like to put an ls1 in but there would be complications with the ecu, cost of an ecu, cost of ls1 and i think thats it but i may be mistaken. Are there any other options for me at this point other than just a diffreent 6? no offence to the v-6 but as far as i know the 8 is capable of more power. If any one knows wear i can get a cheap good LS1 and ECU please let me know because if i can find one i would deffnatly love to have that. But right now all i have at my expense is the carburated 5.0

[Merlin]

sell the car and buy an older third gen :shrug: then the only swap you would have to do is the title's

[chadder]

but as far as i know the 8 is capable of more power.

eh. The 305 is a phenomenal BOAT ANCHOR. Do a 3.8 swap. It's a more reliable motor, it has TONS of potential (800+rwhp on mostly stock internals) and is still very very cheap. It would be a hell of a lot easier than doing a carb'd conversion.

[Grimm]

Swapping a Carbbed anything will be infinitely more difficult than anything else you mentioned. The costs will add up extremely quick. Like merlin said, either sell the car and buy a 3rd gen, or swap in a 3.8l. THere's still some modification that needs to be done..but it's far less than a carb'd boat anchor swap.

Trust me, I looked into modding the 305 in my 85 el camino before I swapped it..that motor is completely worthless. You can make more power easier and cheaper from a 3.8 v6 than you can from that worthless piece of scrap iron.

Do what you want, but you'll be wasting a lot of money and I get the feeling you'll be extremely disappointed when you're finished.

[Forced_Firebird]

You have a 3.4, correct? Give it to me and I'll use it to spank 305's all day. Just razzing you. I might be interested in taking that 3.4 off your hands if you do a swap.

With a FWD top end/piston swap from a 3400, that motor will make over 200hp which is more than the stock 305.

Welcome to the site ;)

[Wolf]

With a FWD top end/piston swap from a 3400, that motor will make over 200hp which is more than the stock 305.

Welcome to the site ;)
a stock 3.4 makes more hp than a stock lg4 carb 305 (160 vs 140)

[HeavyChevy3800]

no offence to the v-6 but as far as i know the 8 is capable of more power.You have much to learn young one.


+1 for the 305 being a boat anchor.

[Grimm]

Just because it's a v8, doesn't make it more powerful than a v6. Much to learn indeed.

[Forced_Firebird]

a stock 3.4 makes more hp than a stock lg4 carb 305 (160 vs 140)
HMMM, I thought it was higher than that. My 3.1 is listed as 140hp, lol. My exbrother in law had an 85 lg4, and it felt a lot faster then my 3.1. Either way, I'd blow it away now :)

[Black_Ttop]

Just because it's a v8, doesn't make it more powerful than a v6. Much to learn indeed.

:werd: only thing u will get that u wont get out of a 6 is the v8 sound...other then that u can either start with 140hp 5.0 or start out with a 200hp 3.8...your choice though but ide much rather have a 3.8...or u can get a lt1 what we suggested in the 1st place...we never mentioned ls1 though it would be a better choice.

[Tpunk]

The LT1 would be the easiest swap and wouldn't be terribly expensive. An LS1 would be a bitch to put in and would be expensive. The 305 really is worthless I hate to say. The 3800II is more reliable than the 3.4 that came in your car... in fact it's about the most reliable engine I can think of., even the LS1 guys I know will tell you that. The power of the 3.8 won't set the world on fire but it's enough to have fun and gives you a ton of room to work on it in the engine bay. I love mine and after spending 2K in mods I can run with LT1's and take 2 valve mustang GT's. The choice is up to you but if you want a V8 an LT1 would be your best bet for that car.

[Forced_Firebird]

The 3800II is more reliable than the 3.4 that came in your car...
How so?

[Tpunk]

The 3.4 has more problems with the top end and with the LIM gasket going. This is based off of personal experience with a family members car and with what others have complained about. They are still usually good for over 150k miles with very few problems though (aside from the LIM gasket which seems to go out before 100K)

[Forced_Firebird]

I guess I would consider that a maintenance issue, but if you didn't know about them it could be a problem. It has been eliminated for some time now in new production models of the 60*. I know of several 3rd gen fbodies with origional gaskets on them, seems like I hear of more aluminum heads guys complaining of it. Like my BMW that needs a timing belt every 50k.

The SeriesII doesn't have ANY quirks?

[Tpunk]

The rear main seal leaks on some cars but that is about it. Mine started leaking but it's such a slow leak that it is less than half a quart every 5K miles so I haven't got around to fixing it. I've searched for other problems and I've just not come up with much. And don't get me started on BMW. My dads 89 750 is a total bitch to work on... but the only problems it has are plastic parts drying out and rubber deteriorating.

[Forced_Firebird]

Mines an 86 325es w/75k miles, in mint condition (really mint). It's easy to work on except the hood is backwards :dammit: The only things so far (outside of maint) was the fan clutch and clutch master cyl. (it's 21 yrs old, though)

None of my vehicles leak, except the rear end of my 185k mile F150 is starting to sweat, but that's just one of those things I never get around to, and it's a work truck.

Rear seal was a problem on the older 3.8's as well, I have done a few diveway tranny R&R's on them, lol.

Nice thing about the 60* motors is the factory forged rods and they now have steel cranks. I've had detonation that would have surely broken cast rods.

Does the SeriesII like to rev?

[Tpunk]

The 750 has about 175K on it so it's getting up there. The problem is that V12 takes up every bit of space in the engine bay. As for the series II liking to rev... what do you mean by that?

[Forced_Firebird]

Stock redline/limiter? I don't have much experience with them. Closest I cam to the SeriesII was changing a S/C belt on a SSE, had to remove the motor mout to do it.

[Tpunk]

Haha, yeah the buick riv was the same way. That was the worst design for belt routing I've ever seen. Anyway our engines stock redline is 5700rpm so no they aren't real screamers.

[Forced_Firebird]

Mine shifts at 5500, redline is 6k, limited to 6500. So it's not hat different With a spring swap they can see 7k.

The S2 wnet to even fire, didn't they?

[ezrollin]

Guy's the 305 defintely is not a boat anchor,though I would hardly call it hpo. I saw one with afr heads,cam and 4 bbl / hi rise make 387 hp. As for the 3.4 [rwd] it's been one of the most dependable engine I've ever had.

[Epro]

Ok so here is the deal. I have a 94 firebird and its given me nuthing but problems, ive gobe through 2 transmissions, 2 rear ends, 3 water pumps, blew my power steering and now the pully that held the pump on completely fell of and fucked up my belt, my car is stranded at my girlfriends house. I just bough a Pontiac 5.0 carburated from the 80s, and a 700r4 trans, it all is in very good condition and i picked it up for 150$ froma family friend.Whati need to know is basically everu thign i will need to be able to put this iin my firebird. i do not want to go fuel injected again and i want to completely get rid of the engie computer. i think illneed a new radiator, drive shaft, rear end, and engine mounts. But i dont know exactly what all i will need for this conversion. if any one knows of what all i will need andwear to find it please let me know as soon as possible thanks.

There is a guy local to me that did the 3.4 to 5.0 swap. None of his gauges work. I got to talk to him about it, and he said it's a pretty quick car. His car was a T-5 and I do believe an LG4. (L69 is the 305 H.O)

So yes, none of his gauges work.

I will say his car sounded amazing though :cool: :)

[lubsvitek]

There is a guy local to me that did the 3.4 to 5.0 swap.

I'm sure its doable, you can pretty much weld up anything and put a motor to it - but would you want to drive it everyday? And good luck doing that if you're 17 and low on experience and cash. Point is, I suggest to do your research too before you start buying parts, but either way there are still options you have...

You can:

1. Get a 3800
2. Get an LT1

3. sell your 3.4 firebird if you hate it so much, then set the 5.0 on fire and ride a bike to school

EDIT: You can use the 5.0 tranny as a big paperweight

[Driver_10]

no offence to any of you guys but i have had a lot of problems with the v-6 in this car and since the rest of my firebird collection has v-8s i figure why not drop an 8 into this one as well. i do realise that the carbed wouldnt be the best choice but keep in mind i am only 17 and cant afford to buy an LS1, the reason i opted for the carburated v-8 was because i had one sitting around b/c me and my dad pulled it out of my 86 trans am in order to put in the 400. and befor he signed the title over to my name i bought the 5.0. I would like to put an ls1 in but there would be complications with the ecu, cost of an ecu, cost of ls1 and i think thats it but i may be mistaken. Are there any other options for me at this point other than just a diffreent 6? no offence to the v-6 but as far as i know the 8 is capable of more power. If any one knows wear i can get a cheap good LS1 and ECU please let me know because if i can find one i would deffnatly love to have that. But right now all i have at my expense is the carburated 5.0

swapping a v8 is not bad.... swapping a POS, Regan era 305 is terrible.:thumbd:

edit: If your insitant on using a cheaper v8 then may I suggest a 1985 "truck block" 350. They practically breed in boneyards, offer larger berring journells, come with one piece rear seal as apposed to the problematic two piece seals offered in pre 85 blocks and are dirt cheap.

[blackhawk007one]

It's your money and time, but for the effort I would just save up and buy an LT1 and swap that. There's absolutely nothing wrong with a computer controlled vehicle. If you take the time to learn them, they actually have a lot of advantages to an older carburated engine.

I followed for years the carb vs. FI debate. While the carb people did have some interesting points, in the end I couldn't figure out how you could really justify a carb when FI was a viable option. A computer give you SO much more dependability, control, and power(not to mention no more painfully frustrating cold starts). I'll agree with grimm and say get an LT1. You will NOT regret it, it will be cheaper then the 305 to swap (because even though LT1's cost a lot, the 305 will require hundreds of dollars and hours of time in small frustrating changes that will never feel quite right), and you will have a whole freakin lot more power.

Good luck, and welcome!

[Black_Ttop]

what he said ^--- but u could swap for a 3.8 alot cheaper then a lt1 if u want a v6 but if u want a v8 just go all out and get a lt1, 305's traditionally suck.

[Forced_Firebird]

what he said ^--- but u could swap for a 3.8 alot cheaper then a lt1 if u want a v6 but if u want a v8 just go all out and get a lt1, 305's traditionally suck.
What's wrong with building a nice 3.4/3500 hybrid?

[Black_Ttop]

well...nothing's wrong with it if u wanna be 40hp behind the 8 ball ;) for about the same price of both engines why not get the 3.8 with 40 more horses?

[Forced_Firebird]

well...nothing's wrong with it if u wanna be 40hp behind the 8 ball ;) for about the same price of both engines why not get the 3.8 with 40 more horses?
3500 heads are good for 200hp in stock form. I'm expecting over 250hp after porting, springs, cam, and headers. Then it's on to the boost again, and I'll be over 500 ;).

[Black_Ttop]

im wondering if 3900 heads will work for 3800's...or is it different? (wouldnt doubt it be different)

[Forced_Firebird]

im wondering if 3900 heads will work for 3800's...or is it different? (wouldnt doubt it be different)
Not even close.

You have to realize, once the displacement got a little bigger on the 60*'s, the power increased dramatically. A 3500 puts out well over 200 in stock form, and the 3900's are approaching 300hp. I believe this is why GM is phasing out the 90* v6's.

[Black_Ttop]

so 3900 heads wont work eh?

[Grimm]

The 3900 is a 60* motor. Our 3.8's are 90*. Not even close.

[Black_Ttop]

oh ok... i never really got the details on the 3.9 so i didnt know

[Forced_Firebird]

Not even close.

You have to realize, once the displacement got a little bigger on the 60*'s, the power increased dramatically. A 3500 puts out well over 200 in stock form, and the 3900's are approaching 300hp. I believe this is why GM is phasing out the 90* v6's.



The 3900 is a 60* motor. Our 3.8's are 90*. Not even close.

Is there an echo in here? :rofl:

I guess nobody believes me, unless someone else backs it up? :shrug:

[Driver_10]

Is there an echo in here? :rofl:

I guess nobody believes me, unless someone else backs it up? :shrug:

Hey Forced_Firebird. Its kinda funny that what weve been heralding about the 60* motors is comming to pass.;) The 90* is comming to a developemental standstill from the factory and more goodies are being birthed forward from the "general" by the year for 60* motors.:rofl:

I love it when the underdog bite back.:)

[triple_l82]

Hey Forced_Firebird. Its kinda funny that what weve been heralding about the 60* motors is comming to pass.;) The 90* is comming to a developemental standstill from the factory and more goodies are being birthed forward from the "general" by the year for 60* motors.:rofl:

I love it when the underdog bite back.:)


thanks alot now I need a rabies shot

at least i didn't get kicked in the balls this time

[Grimm]

Is there an echo in here? :rofl:

I guess nobody believes me, unless someone else backs it up? :shrug:

Eh, we all know you 60* guys are full of shit. :jest:

[Forced_Firebird]

Hey Forced_Firebird. Its kinda funny that what weve been heralding about the 60* motors is comming to pass.;) The 90* is comming to a developemental standstill from the factory and more goodies are being birthed forward from the "general" by the year for 60* motors.:rofl:

I love it when the underdog bite back.:)

We know why GM has halted the progression of the 90* motor :secret:


Eh, we all know you 60* guys are full of shit. :jest:

Yeah, well I'm so full of shit my eyes are brown, but your extra .6l isn't going to get you that far :rofl:.

Are you planning on getting that stroker on a dyno? You should see some nice gains.

[Driver_10]

Yeah... point 0.6l and a crappy balance shaft:rofl:

That stroker should be pretty sick. Im looking forward to the dyno numbers myself. Betcha its gonna be torquey as hell.

[Grimm]

I'm trying to work out some other issues at the moment. :( I'm also going to try swapping back to a stock TC rather than the 3800rpm that I'm running now. It just seems too high.

[Pure_Camaro]

Hey dude I have an idea, STOP BEATING THE FUCK OUT OF YOUR CAR! if you respect your car it might not give you all the trouble you douche. I bet I know exactly how you lost your power steering pump, pulley, trans, and rear, by racing, and doing donuts all the time.
/rant

[Slvr00Bird]

Hey dude I have an idea, STOP BEATING THE FUCK OUT OF YOUR CAR! if you respect your car it might not give you all the trouble you douche. I bet I know exactly how you lost your power steering pump, pulley, trans, and rear, by racing, and doing donuts all the time.
/rant

gotta have fun in it.. if not then whats the point of having it??

if you're looking to buy a 3.8L i have one with around 74k miles with tranny and computer... thing ran great when i took it out, the only thing is since i've had it out i robbed the injectors out of it and put it in my brothers car bc his had one that leaked. So his are now in it and that one would need replaced for it to start smoothly... It still starts fine, but you have to crank it some which isn't good for a starter at all..

Edit: oh it's out of a 00 bird

[ezrollin]

Guys,I've got a 305 that puts out 325 hp but will admit that the only reason I built it was because I had it laying around and got alum heads and forged pistons cheap,had considered turbo but will probably do the hybrid 3.4 turbo instead.

[Merlin]

im so glad that the op has been so active in this thread.

[Tpunk]

im so glad that the op has been so active in this thread.

Good point. And BTW, thanks for changing your sig pic, I was getting tired of seeing that psycho in all of your posts :rofl:. The original poster only has 2 posts so I almost think he just hasn't come back on here... I'll have to check.