3800 in a chevette help

[G-Body]

I have a 1980 chevette that I want to swap a series II 3800 out of a 97 camaro into.

The problem that I am having is that the starter is mounted on the drivers side:dammit: and the steering shaft is directly in the way. Hooker use to make a swap kit to bolt in a carb`ed 3.8L so I know it should be possible to fit in. I am thinking that GM changed the starter location to the drivers side when they updated the motor?????

Did they make a 3800 with a starter on the pass side? I read on a forum somewhere that the FWD and RWD 3800`s mounted the starter on opposite sides, but I checked a late 90`s bonneville and it is on the same side.

What side does a 4.3L v6 mount the starter on? I know people have swapped those into chevettes

What side does the 2.8, 3.1, 3.4 motors have the starter on? Does the side vary between the FWD and RWD motors?

Bellhousing patterns. I know that the 4.3L and v8`s share the same pattern. I also know that the 2.8/3.1/3.4 have the 60 degree pattern. What pattern does the 3.8L use??? I know that the 3.8L motor is a 90 deg motor, but a post I was just reading said it used a 60 deg bellhousing pattern. Could I bolt my 3.8l trans to a 3.1L??

What cars had the 3.1 and 3.4 motors and was the 3.4 only available as an OHC motor?

I know this is a lot of questions, but any help is appreciated. I wanted to post all the info so that I can figure out what my best option is, I am a newbie to V6`s, but not to engine swaps, my El Camino has a 2001 tahoe 5.3L:secret::)

[TurboV6Camaro]

the 3.8 has the same bell housing as the 2.8/3.1/3.4

if i was you i would try to modify the bell housing or try and get one from the 3.4 and keep the 3.8 i think you will be much happier in the end...

[RedFrk]

Series 2/3 3800s all have the starter on the driver side. I know rwd 2.8s, 3.4s have the starter on the passenger.

If you bought a 3.4 transmission/bellhousing, you could probably drill some new holes in the 3800 block to mount the starter on the passenger side. It would probably be simple for a machine shop to do.

Auto or stick?

[G-Body]

I know I would be happier with the 3800 than a smaller motor, it makes more power:);), the most powerful 3.4L that I found makes 160, whereas the 3800 makes 200.

The trans is an auto, but the bellhousing is not even an issue, the starter could go on either side as far as the bellhousing is concerned. The only thing that would need to be modded is the guard for the TC/flywheel.

The problem is that the block kicks out further on the drivers side to mount the starter. I think I could drill the passenger side inner bolt hole, but I don`t think there would be a place to drill the outer bolt.

If I could use an older starter (from a passenger side mount app) it might be possible, I could drill the inner bolt into the block and make a bracket to hold the outside of the starter. Then I guess I could grind off the boss on the drivers side because even that interferes with the steering shaft:dammit: I already have looked at swapping the current starter to the passenger side and it is not a possibility.

What year and application would I have to go back to before I could find a 3.8L with a passenger side starter?

[Wolf]

What year and application would I have to go back to before I could find a 3.8L with a passenger side starter?


87 under rwd, these have a taller deck hight than the 3800II and the BOP bellhouse pattern

if the tooth count is the same on the 3800II and 3.4's flywheel, you could probably redrill the block as other have said and use the 3.4 starter

I got and old turbo 3.8 that would be sweet to put in a chevette (or rwd h body)

a 3.4 dose fit in a chevette better than a 90* v6
(heres pics of one with a supercharged 3.4)
http://www.60degreev6.com/gallery/browseimages.php?c=3&userid=8661

[G-Body]

I measured the block today, and test fit it again. It does not look like there is enough material to bolt the starter to the passenger side. Even if there was it does not look like the motor would have enough clearance without cutting the firewall. I don`t mind doing the hammer mod on the firewall, but cutting and welding is more problems than I want to deal with.

I think I am going to try to find a complete 3100 or 3400 and trans to buy or swap for. The 3800 could be put in easily if I wanted to make it a track car, but I want to be able to drive this car on the street including during the winter.

[Grimm]

my El Camino has a 2001 tahoe 5.3L:secret::)


I just wanted to say, from one El Camino nut to another....I love you. :P

[G-Body]

I went for a ride in my aunts 2002 camaro and had to have a LS1 after that:). The truck 5.3L is the same basic design just with an iron block and a cheaper price tag. I really like the swap, the car is calm enough to drive daily if you stay out of the throttle, will break the tires loose all the way through 1st, gets 13-16mpg in the city with me driving it harder than most people drive rentals, runs consistent 13.9`s even if you hot lap it.

I figured I should be happy with a v6 in the chevette since they only weigh like 2300 with a V6 swapped in. I was planning on putting the chevette together as a beater.

[G-Body]

I almost forgot, theres some pics of the El Camino engine swap on my fquick page http://www.fquick.com/G-Body Theres also a vid of me saying goodbye to a set of old tires that I no longer needed.

[Grimm]

Let me ask you*waay off topic*

What are you using for a rear? I badly want an LS1 in my 85...but I can't decide what to go swap in so I don't snap my stocker rear end.

[G-Body]

I am using an 8.5" Grand National rear end. The only reason I am using it is because I scored it for $60 on a half price day at a self serve yard. It was under a cutlass 442 (the high output 307 442`s also got the 8.5") and they had no idea it was anything special:).

You don`t really have to worry about the 7.5", there are a bunch of guys running them behind LS1`s in G-bodies. Offhand I can think of a couple El Caminos, a monte, malibu and a cutlass that are running LSx series engines and 7.5" rears. The guy who had the cutlass has parted the car out but I never heard of him having any problems and it was a 6.0L.

Keep in mind that the 4th gen f-bodies that came from the factory with LS1`s were running 7 5/8" rear axles. They are the same case as a 7.5, in fact the later monte SS`s and maybe even some of the EC`s had the 7 5/8" ringgear from the factory.

[Grimm]

I was just a member on Elcaminocentral.com and I remember all of them preaching about how completely weak the stock rear is on these cars. It's always left me a little freaked. I think atleast I'd try to swap for a GN or Monte SS rear(they said the SS rears were better than our stockers?).

[G-Body]

The 7.5" isn`t the strongest rear, but as long as you have street tires and under 400hp it seems to hold up fine.

The Monte SS rears have the same housing as the El Camino, but some of them have the 7.625" ring gear compared to our 7.5". It is supposed to be the premium strong rear end, but I don`t see an extra 1/8" bigger ring gear being that much stronger.

The 4th gen f-body guys do blow up the 7.625" rears, but they usually do it with slicks and after they are into the 11 sec qtr times, plus their cars weigh more than our cars do.

[Grimm]

Cool info. I'll probably swap a monte ss/GN/whatever just so I can pick up the posi then...unless I can figure out a way to just get ahold of the internals.

Sorry for jacking your thread. Back to swapping motors in chevettes. :D

Oh, and please hang around. I need atleast one person on this forum that doesn't look at me funny when I say "I <3 el caminos" :(

[WarShrike]

Lemme know how it goes. I've got a '79 'Vette that has me itching to give it the 3.8 treatment.

[Driver_10]

With chevette v6 swaps, the rears always go first. Most guys use pinto or s-10 rear-ends because they do not require any narrowing. I wouldnt worry about beefing the rear up. A chevette w/motor barely wieghs 2800lbs soaking wet.

Ive seen chevettes with stock 4.3l swaps making 12/13s in the 1/4 . One issue that your are going to have is oil pan clearance. The rack-n-pinion will get in the way. The pan must be modiffied to clear it.

A 3800 w/200r4 tranny w/a s-10 rear-end would be kick-ass. good luck!

[lurch]

I know its not a 3800 but i wanted to show you just incase you changed your mind. Pics towards bottom of page.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724619

[G-Body]

Lurch, I love the LSx motors, but I want the chevette to be a beater that I can drive every day if I need to, so hacking the entire firewall/heaterbox out is not an option. If you put an LSx in I think you would have to cut most of the floor out to tub it and put a tube frame in. Plus I am doing this swap in my driveway, I can`t even get the car in the garage. I have moved since I did the LSx into my El Camino and the new garage is much smaller.

Driver: How much do you know about the 4.3L swaps? The series II 3800 does not fit in there at all, so I would think the 4.3L is even worse. From what I have read the exhaust has to be flipped around, but I couldn`t find much more info. Oil pan clearance does not worry me at all, the v6 pans are all stamped steel which I can cut rebuild and weld. They are not cast aluminum like the LSx pans, that is a bit more difficult to weld.

[G-Body]

Lemme know how it goes. I've got a '79 'Vette that has me itching to give it the 3.8 treatment.

I posted some pics on my fquick page. The series II 3800 seems to hit everything.

[Driver_10]

I posted some pics on my fquick page. The series II 3800 seems to hit everything.

Most of the 3800 installs ive seen required cutting. You are not going to have any room for ac. Most people who do theses swaps dont really worry about ac.

It was either edelbrock or moroso that actually made a kit for swapping sb chevy v8s into these cars. I know that you want to run a v6, so Im not really recomending a v8 but possibly you may want to study the bracketry if you can find a few good pics. The 4.3l uses the same kit & bracketry so be sure and study it.

If your car originally came with a 2.8l then it may be more practicle for you to use a 3400 w/3500 heads and intake. The mounts will be easier to retrofit plus that combo should provide about 220 hp or so with a bit of tuning. Using a t-5 would keep the wieght to a minimum and give you stock clearance since there is no cowl to obstuct the intake.

[G-Body]

The car does not even have A/C so I am not worried about that, the heat, however, I do want to keep.

I am not opposed to running a V8, I just don`t think it would fit without a lot of sawzall and welder work. I was aware that hooker used to make a kit to swap a 3.8L (old style) buick motor in, but I have not heard of a V8 kit.

I am actually leaning towards a 4.3L at this point, I did some more measuring and found out that the 60 degree V6 and 90 degree v6 bellhousing is the same width, and the 4.3L has the starter on the passenger side. The starter placement on the 3.8L was really the straw that broke the camels back.

The chevettes were 4cyl only. GM had a prototype 2.8L chevette, but they never produced it as it would have taken sales away from their citation which was more expensive and profitable.

[Driver_10]

The car does not even have A/C so I am not worried about that, the heat, however, I do want to keep.

I am not opposed to running a V8, I just don`t think it would fit without a lot of sawzall and welder work. I was aware that hooker used to make a kit to swap a 3.8L (old style) buick motor in, but I have not heard of a V8 kit.

I am actually leaning towards a 4.3L at this point, I did some more measuring and found out that the 60 degree V6 and 90 degree v6 bellhousing is the same width, and the 4.3L has the starter on the passenger side. The starter placement on the 3.8L was really the straw that broke the camels back.

The chevettes were 4cyl only. GM had a prototype 2.8L chevette, but they never produced it as it would have taken sales away from their citation which was more expensive and profitable.

Thats correct. The 60 degree and the late model 3800 share the same BH. Actually, the northstar, shortstar 3.5l, jeep 2.5l, jeep 4.0l, and a few toyota motors share the same bellhousing boltpattern. One particular thing to remember is that 60 motors made for RR aplications have starters on the Pas-side. The FWD, 3400 style block has its starter on the D-side. You may want to use a 3.4l camaro built shortblock w/3500 heads if the starter is the issue.

P.S. I had always though that the chevette had a 2.8l as an option.
I just learned something new today!:)

[G-Body]

The starter is the biggest issue. I am debating if I should go with a 3.4L f-body motor or a 4.3L 90 deg s10 motor. They both have a passenger side starter. I measured the bellhousings and they are the same width where the steering column passes by. So that area will be tight no mater which motor I pick. Either way I think that both of them use the old style computers with removable chips:no:. I found a bunch of web pages where people swapped the 4.3L` into chevettes so I know it is possible.

Right now I am leaning toward the 4.3 since they seem to be more available and have a greater power potential. But I have back burnerd the chevette project right now, I need to get some things done on my El Camino. I just notched the frame for A/C today. Now I just have to put it all back together and have some A/C hoses made.

[PeeFo]

The 4.3 would def. be a better choice versus the 3.4 If you can fit it. People have made sick power with them, and they are durable to say the least.

[Driver_10]

Heres a vision for you...

A 4.3l with ported bowtie heads, "ultra light" rotating assembly, high lift "streetable" cam and single plane manifold retro fitted for EFI with five speed manual....in a "Chevette".


:drool: