3.4 is toast, swapping to a 3.8SII.

[Silenceinfullcolor]

Alright, so my mechanic finally got my engine apart, and it's bad. Snapped connecting rod, cracked cylinder wall, among a cracked head. So it's toast. I've got no clue what happened, but it's gone. Im thinking it was bad when I got it, and it just grew worse the more I beat on it.

My uncle was looking into an engine swap for me, and im seriously considering the 3.8 Series II. I'm liking this idea more than the v8 swap for two reasons. One, the engine itself isn't going to cost as much, and two, I can stay in the V6 game. I read a post somewhere in the Conversions forum that said i'd be needing a harness, engine, PCM, and a couple other things need to be rigged. Something about the 3.4 tranny bolting up, but needing a rigged kickdown cable (what the hell is that?) I'm also thinking i'd need a new radiator.

Any input?

[Amagine]

it's seriously easier to just swap in an LT1 or an LS series.
You'll also need to change the K member, most if not all of your mount points. Honestly cost in motors is just about the same if your looking. Your cooling, fueling and most every other piece of plumbing will have to be changed or rerouted.
If I'm wrong someone else re inform me. I've just been told for about the time and money you can more easily swap a v8 in. If it's that simple to drop a 3.8 in I'm running out to do it.

[usd2sing]

u can pick up a 3.8 intakes to pay for about 500.
i paid 550 for one last yr and it was complete ready to run.
doubt u will ever find an ls for that price.

[Wolf]

it's seriously easier to just swap in an LT1 or an LS series.
You'll also need to change the K member, most if not all of your mount points. Honestly cost in motors is just about the same if your looking. Your cooling, fueling and most every other piece of plumbing will have to be changed or rerouted.
If I'm wrong someone else re inform me. I've just been told for about the time and money you can more easily swap a v8 in. If it's that simple to drop a 3.8 in I'm running out to do it.

3.4 to 3.8 isn't hard, you'll need the 3.8 with motor mounts (3.4 x-member is the same as the 3.8)the 3.8 fuel lines from the motor to the quick disconnect, 3.8 computer and harness(thats the hard part) 3.8 radiator hoses(again they have the same radiator)3.4 auto tranny will work on a 3.8(unless its a 93) on a 5 speed you'll need the 3.8s bellhouse and hydralic throwout

[FloydSummerOf68]

You can pick up the 3.8 real cheap, like usd2sing said...500 bucks.

This would be a great time to beef it up a little if you have any extra cash laying around. Working on a motor outside the car is 100% easier :)

[Silenceinfullcolor]

Actually, we've weighed the options, and we're ordering a remanufactured 3.4 and beefing it up real nice. Thanks for the input, fellas. :)

/thread.

[Epro]

3.4 to 3.8 isn't hard, you'll need the 3.8 with motor mounts (3.4 x-member is the same as the 3.8)the 3.8 fuel lines from the motor to the quick disconnect, 3.8 computer and harness(thats the hard part) 3.8 radiator hoses(again they have the same radiator)3.4 auto tranny will work on a 3.8(unless its a 93) on a 5 speed you'll need the 3.8s bellhouse and hydralic throwout

Are you 100% on that?

[Wolf]

Are you 100% on that?
no, LOL, ahem let me expand on that,
the bolt pattern is the same 3.4 to 3.8II,and internally the trannys are the same for both motors, however the 3.4 and 3.8 have the starter on opposite sides (one reason you need to swap bellhousings on the t5) I don't know if the 4l60e has starter pokets on both sides or not(if not you can allways cutout room for the starter,I've done it before swapping engines on an s10)
and the 93 wont work becuse that year the trannie still has a kickdown cable,that the 3800II has no provision for


OH and iirc 3.4 used 3.23 gears on auto and stick so if you go to 3.8 auto you'll need its gears or reprogram the compter to take the 3.23 gears

[Joker73]

I have a 3400 v6 grand am, and a 3800seriesII LeSabre so i guess i lucked out, i have everything i hope to do this. I'm just getting in the car game as in fixing and customizing and planning to go to lincoln tech in july but can't wait to swap. I have plenty of friends who do this for a living so with their help about how long would it take to knock everything out. I heard that the wiring harness was the most time consuming.

[93camaro_zzz]

it's seriously easier to just swap in an LT1 or an LS series.
You'll also need to change the K member, most if not all of your mount points. Honestly cost in motors is just about the same if your looking. Your cooling, fueling and most every other piece of plumbing will have to be changed or rerouted.
If I'm wrong someone else re inform me. I've just been told for about the time and money you can more easily swap a v8 in. If it's that simple to drop a 3.8 in I'm running out to do it.

:werd:

Also, I am all about v6's, but I would do an engine swap for 40 flywheel hp, especially considering how hard it is to get a 3.8 in there. Dont you have to swap a k-member also. no bueno IMO.

EDIT: also, wolf... how would a 3.8 automatic bolt anywhere near up to a 90* engine. Think about it....

[Wolf]

:werd:



EDIT: also, wolf... how would a 3.8 automatic bolt anywhere near up to a 90* engine. Think about it....
all fwd 3.8's (the 3800II counts as a fwd motor even in a 4th gen)have the 60* v6 bellhouseing, the older rwd 3.8s have the bop pattern(I have a turbo 3.8 in my garage)

[redwhiteandnew]

Actually, we've weighed the options, and we're ordering a remanufactured 3.4 and beefing it up real nice. Thanks for the input, fellas. :)

/thread.


Hey, I'm interested.. what are you doing to the 3.4 to "beef it up?"

I agree, it's much easier to just stick with what your car is already intended for. (Such as the 3.4 remanufactored), but I'm not so sure the 3.4's worth much modding. Especially, the pushrod 3.4 in our Fbodies.
The DOHC 3.4 may be a different story, but even that has limited aftermarket products.

As far as the 3.8 vs LS, i'd definatly stick 3.8. It's an easier jump. Remember, the V8 weighs more as well, so along with all the necessary changes, you'll need new springs, control arms, etc. A lot of that you could probably snag off of a wrecked Z or T/A, but still more stuff you have to buy.

I'd rather go for a 3.8 and do like another has mentioned.. mod the engine while outside the car!! :)

-Im curious to what you plan on doing with the 3.4 because I'm considering a 3.4 swap for my Fiero.


all fwd 3.8's (the 3800II counts as a fwd motor even in a 4th gen)have the 60* v6 bellhouseing, the older rwd 3.8s have the bop pattern(I have a turbo 3.8 in my garage)


Wolf, I think I follow you here...

From what I understand, all 3.8 II's in RWD cars are 90* engines.
The 3.8's out of FWD cars (which differ) are 60*

The 2.8, 3.1 & 3.4's are all 60* as well, which explains why a very popular engine swap into a Fiero is the 3.8SC out of Bonnevilles and GrandAms (FWD).

;)

[Grimm]

Wolf, I think I follow you here...

From what I understand, all 3.8 II's in RWD cars are 90* engines.
The 3.8's out of FWD cars (which differ) are 60*

The FWD and RWD 3.8II's are exactly the same..and both 90* engines.

[Wolf]

The FWD and RWD 3.8II's are exactly the same..and both 90* engines.

correct 90* v6s with 60* v6 bellhousing
3.4 bellhouse
http://www.tacreationsusa.com/images/Transmissions/BellHousings/bh-34v6.JPG

3.8 bellhouse
http://www.tacreationsusa.com/images/Transmissions/BellHousings/bh-38f.JPG


and I've messed with putting in the DOHC 3.4,it will fit but it takes alot of effort(and considering it weighs as much as an LT1 it surly ain't worth it)

[redwhiteandnew]

correct 90* v6s with 60* v6 bellhousing
...and I've messed with putting in the DOHC 3.4,it will fit but it takes alot of effort(and considering it weighs as much as an LT1 it surly ain't worth it)

Well, there's gotta be a good difference between the FWD 3800s and the RWD 3800s since one's designed to mount to a transaxle and other a driveshaft.
I ask because I know the common engine swap into a fiero is a 3800 out of a (FWD) grand prix, bonneville, etc.

The 3800 IIs have iron block, alum. heads, correct?

The 3.4 OHV are iron heads I believe. Are there alum heads avail?
For that matter, anyone ever done serious head/valve work on the 3.4?

[Grimm]

Well, there's gotta be a good difference between the FWD 3800s and the RWD 3800s since one's designed to mount to a transaxle and other a driveshaft.
I ask because I know the common engine swap into a fiero is a 3800 out of a (FWD) grand prix, bonneville, etc.

The 3800 IIs have iron block, alum. heads, correct?

The 3.4 OHV are iron heads I believe. Are there alum heads avail?
For that matter, anyone ever done serious head/valve work on the 3.4?

The difference is in the intakes mostly. Otherwise the N/A motors are exactly the same in every way...except how the intakes are setup...and probably the way the accessories bolt on.

[Wolf]

Well, there's gotta be a good difference between the FWD 3800s and the RWD 3800s since one's designed to mount to a transaxle and other a driveshaft.
I ask because I know the common engine swap into a fiero is a 3800 out of a (FWD) grand prix, bonneville, etc.

The 3800 IIs have iron block, alum. heads, correct?

The 3.4 OHV are iron heads I believe. Are there alum heads avail?
For that matter, anyone ever done serious head/valve work on the 3.4?
everyting is the same on fwd and rwd 3800II's except for the front cover and intake manifold

iron heads and block

I'm acually rebuilding my 3.4 with aluminum heads, there is alot of info on that in the 60*v6 section

[simzjr]

OK..so does the it matter that the front cover is different? Like can you take the 3800 and just swap it in, without having to get a new front cover?

[Wolf]

OK..so does the it matter that the front cover is different? Like can you take the 3800 and just swap it in, without having to get a new front cover?
depending on what chassis the 3800 came out of,the oil filter sits at a different angle, most of the fwd front covers would ether hang the filter down(witch would hang below your crossmember) or hang it down and in (and that would hit the crossmember )

some fwd covers you may be able to use, most you wouldn't, a rwd cover wouldn't be to hard to get a hold of anyways