M90 on a RWD F-Body Questions

[badbird02]

ok i live in usa and i want to know how do i get a roots style blower on my l36 fbody?:dammit: :dammit: :bang: :bang: :confused:

[OZ38]

Do you know if you will have a clearance problem with the inlet tract ?

Also if you are planning on a blower on top maybe you would be better of with the L67 bottom end first. The L36 pistons may let you down.

[FlyinGTP]

I have big hopes for this project. I'm in the works of trying to set up a fbody with one. This is the second or third time i've hear of someone from oz saying the l36 bottom end won't hold up to a m90. There are few running around over here already. What i'm not sure is what these other l36 cars had for there setups that blew up. With proper setup there isn't any reason it shouldn't work. The fastest M90 car over here ran a l36 bottom end for quite some time.

[Tpunk]

the real problem with such a setup is the 9.4 CR. That alone makes it much less reliable. If you do go with a L36 bottom end you should run the SC at a lower psi to be safe. Also you will run into problems with clearance on the top of the SC. If you get the holden M90 you shouldnt have to much to worry about with the firewall and routing the intake would be much easier. It wont be cheap though.

[scarecrow420]

yeah if you have like AUD $1000 or so you could get a complete aussie M90 but they really aren't all that common over here, since only a few premium models ever came with L67 engines and the L36es FAR outweight he L67s. Also the commodore guys are well clued onto things now and secondhand engines etc get snapped up pretty quickly

i wonder if there is apossibility to get hold of one aussiuie M90 and make a mould of the housing, then you could cast a batch of them and sell them to the RWD L36 american market or something.

[Bird_Of_Prey]

FlyinGTP and I have been kicking this around for a while. The only problem is sourcing parts. It's tough trying to find things in a different country. Perhaps one of the aussie guys can help us out? Are your L67 heads like ours with the injectors in the heads instead of the intake?

One other thing, we have successfully sat FlyinGTP's M90 on top of the L36 in my Firebird. The only problems we saw at that point was thermostat location, air inlet restriction (facing firewall) and throttle linkage (I think we can just use my L36 electronic throttle body to eliminate this problem).

Some detailed pics of OZ L67's would be nice!

[FlyinGTP]

That is why the aussie m90 is so important, because of its different case design. Its kinda the missing link.


As for the 9.4 CR, like i said that doesn't worry me. We have several m90 cars running around with l36 bottom ends. These cars also run fairly high boost as well. Its a matter of proper tune and setup. As of late even people with upgraded pistons run a 9.5 cr if they are staying with the m90. This is a very effecient way to make some more power with the m90.

[scarecrow420]

yeah with forged pistons - 9.5CR for sure! Better to have the M90 in a better efficiency range. But the stock L36 pistons seem to be weak pieces of crap... and to me it seems the "careful" tuning required to get the topend to work on a STOCK L36 bottom end would be "conservative" tuning, therefore it is essentially going to be detuned and not as good as a L67 setup even with it's 8.5 CR. Plus being on such a knife's edge it seems like it doesnt take much for things to go wrong and to blow the L36 pistons up.

But like i say i havent tried this myself and you guys have been playin with this stuff alot longer than us aussies so thats encouraging. I hope someone over here has another crack at fitting the SC6 stuff onto an L36 and actually puts some dollars and effort into getting PROPER tuning sorted out


but anyway, on the topic of the aussie L67 - i will try and chase up some guys to get some detailed pics of the thermostat area and so on. im not sure if our lower inlet manifold is the same as the US or not.

but the heads definately are (ie they have the injectors in em).

i am quite happy to hunt down and ship and M90 from over here for one of you guys if you want, but like i said they cost a bit over here due to their limited numbers, and the chance of getting a housing without the rest of the blower is even more remote. Whoever is going to be the pioneer of this is gonna have to bare the brunt of some R&D costs - but like i say if you can get the housing and make a casting of it, then that would be pretty sweet and you could even start making kits.

but anyway if there's any way i can help you guys out, just let me know

[Bird_Of_Prey]

Hey Mike, why don't we just try to contact Eaton directly? Might be cheaper than having one shipped from OZ.

Scarecrow, thanks for the help. But remember that the US Dollar is stronger than the AU Kangaroo buck, that helps us alot. Anything you can do is greatly appreciated.

I think me and FlyinGTP are gonna be looking for a car real soon.

[hawgs]

I am VERY interested in seeing someone do this.

I changed the title to better reflect the scope of this thread. :)

[Tpunk]

I think i remeber something about the ausie M90 having a slightly different lower intake manifold. you might want to look into the differences or maybe just getting one of those with the charger to be safe.

[FlyinGTP]

It very well could be a different lower as the outlet of the aussie blower is different then the wbody stateside version. So it would make sense that lower intake has a different opening then the fwd version. Also from the pictures i have seen of the aussie one it appears as if the tstat housing is just different as it points towards the front of the car. and the coil packs are located differently. Also i noticed your coolant elbow from the tensioner to the lower intake in some pics is aluminum. If someone could get me the part number for that it would be awesome. As we have crappy plastic ones that break pretty much whenever you take them off.

Finnally as i said some cars have forged pistons with a 9.5cr. However there are a handful of stock l36 bottom end m90 cars running around with good results. These cars are not detuned in any form. They are fairly balls out. As i said in a few other posts the fastest fwd m90 car over here was using a stock l36 bottom end. I think the reason you guys might of ran into some failures is due to the pcm still being l36 code. The l67 is a another ball game all together.

[scarecrow420]

guys, i will try and do a bit of hunting around for some info, pics etc for yas. its hard to get pics when it all assembled so need to find someone with it broken down into bits to get some decent photos. In the meantime though, check out this acrobat PDF document from the holden workshop manuals... it has diagrams of the throttlebody elbow etc and the coolant hose/elbow i think you're talking about FlyinGTP (is it the little elbow bit on page 17?).

Hopefully there should be some ok information in here to keep you guys going :)

http://members.iinet.net.au/~scarecrow420/car/ftv6/Supercharged%20V6.pdf


also with the L67 topend onto L36 conversion i know of over here, he used the L67 PCM and code... but not sure if he had it tuned/modified properly so it was prob runniong too much timing or something for the higher compression. I still find it hard to believe that it doesnt have to be detuned to work on the crapper pistons but yeah like i said you guys have the runs on the board. shame ive already got other projects going otherwise i might have had a proper go at doing the M90. My twin garrett GT2871R's will probably be a bit more hardcore though! :)

[badbird02]

thank you so much(after wiping drool from chin) for finding this. i have been dreaming of haveing an m90 on my car for so long

[Tpunk]

Wow, good find on the diagram. If this ends up working as easily as you guys think it will i think we could have a lot more guys joining FI. I'm still against this on a stock l36 bottom end.

[OZ38]

I think i remeber something about the ausie M90 having a slightly different lower intake manifold. you might want to look into the differences or maybe just getting one of those with the charger to be safe.

If you guys look at the first pic in this thread.
http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3332

You will see the Holden M90 lower manifold compared to the American Gen5 M90 lower manifold.
Apart from a larger main port they are identical in every way.

So I would say your Gen3 M90's lower inlet manifolds would be the exact same as the Holden Gen3 M90's lower inlet manifold.

[FlyinGTP]

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/435879/4

Here are some pics i saw. I really couldn't tell if that was the elbow in the other picture as it showed hose clamps which the elbow doesn't use. Anyway you can see it the picture of the lower intake. Its the aluminum elbow with a bleeder screw on it. This makes sense as the tstat has it on our l67 cars but do to location in a rwd format its hard to get at. By the way looking that picture really makes me believe that it is l67 fwd manifold judging by the tstat location. On the l36 rwd the tstat is up front.

[OZ38]

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/435879/4

Here are some pics i saw. I really couldn't tell if that was the elbow in the other picture as it showed hose clamps which the elbow doesn't use. Anyway you can see it the picture of the lower intake. Its the aluminum elbow with a bleeder screw on it. This makes sense as the tstat has it on our l67 cars but do to location in a rwd format its hard to get at. By the way looking that picture really makes me believe that it is l67 fwd manifold judging by the tstat location. On the l36 rwd the tstat is up front.

I'm not getting what you trying to see FlyingGTP ?
Our L67's and L36''s are all RWD cars. By this I mean our thermostats are the same as yours one front and the other back.

Edit: I was going to post some more pics but the option to do so has disappeared off my reply sreen, don't know whats going on here now.

Posting rules say you may not post attachments. What gives ?

[hawgs]

I'm not getting what you trying to see FlyingGTP ?
Our L67's and L36''s are all RWD cars. By this I mean our thermostats are the same as yours one front and the other back.

Edit: I was going to post some more pics but the option to do so has disappeared off my reply sreen, don't know whats going on here now.

We changed the way we host images a little bit. Instead of being limited on the size when attaching a file to a thread... we now allow you to host pictures on our server. This allows our message board to run faster and cleaner because the pictures will not be stored in the same database the board is. :)

www.fullthrottlev6.com/uploads - create a new account there and you can upload any picture you'd like and it will give you a URL for it.

For more info look at this thread: http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3725

[OZ38]

Ok I've registared so lets seen if I've got it sussed.

Edit: Nope can't work it out How do I get the images I've uploaded to the main file back to this post now ? ?

[epic]

We'll take this a little off track to you get this resolved and then soft delete the posts so we don't take this completely off-topic.

I see your account, OZ38, is already in there and you have atleast 8 pictures uploaded. To have it spit out the vBulletin image code, you will click that checkbox that says so when you upload files.

If you didn't do that, you can still make images appear by first clicking "Your Files" then clicking one of the image names. The image should pop up in a new window. Copy that address of the image and then go back into the forums. From there, you will put something similar to this:


http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/upload/userfiles/OZ38/image.jpg
That should do it. :)

[dougsgtp]

the only thing youd really need is the inlet to the s/c since the m90 we have hear isnt angled, and would face the firewall. Secondly, clearance of the s/c and the lip of the cowl. Once those two are worked out, there really shouldnt be any problems. Oh i take that back, it would be easier to use the block of the firebired v6 and stuff gtp internals etc etc. The l36 and l67 blocks are the same, just the internals and accessories locations are a little different. Hell the l67 and l36 use the same crank too.

[OZ38]

We'll take this a little off track to you get this resolved and then soft delete the posts so we don't take this completely off-topic.

I see your account, OZ38, is already in there and you have atleast 8 pictures uploaded. To have it spit out the vBulletin image code, you will click that checkbox that says so when you upload files.

If you didn't do that, you can still make images appear by first clicking "Your Files" then clicking one of the image names. The image should pop up in a new window. Copy that address of the image and then go back into the forums. From there, you will put something similar to this:


http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/upload/userfiles/OZ38/image.jpg
That should do it. :)

Ok I 'll try it again thanks.

[OZ38]

Hopefully some more pics of the OZ M90http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/upload/userfiles/OZ38/boost%20gauge%20vac%20%26%20boost%20line.jpg

If that works more to follow.

Oh wow it's great to have to know how finally sussed.

The image is from a thread where a guy wanted to know how to add in a boost gauge so ignore the yellow text if you can.

[OZ38]

the only thing youd really need is the inlet to the s/c since the m90 we have hear isnt angled, and would face the firewall. Secondly, clearance of the s/c and the lip of the cowl. Once those two are worked out, there really shouldnt be any problems. Oh i take that back, it would be easier to use the block of the firebired v6 and stuff gtp internals etc etc. The l36 and l67 blocks are the same, just the internals and accessories locations are a little different. Hell the l67 and l36 use the same crank too.

Not that simple just look at the pics in this thread for the difference between the OZ M90 and the American M90's inlet.

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3332

[OZ38]

Heres some more pics of a very polished up OZ M90 sitting on a very polished air to air intercooler adapter.

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/upload/userfiles/OZ38/small%201.jpg

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/upload/userfiles/OZ38/small.jpg

[FlyinGTP]

Let me see if i can explain it better. What i'm getting at is on a fwd l67 in a gtp the tstat is at the rear of lower intake manifold. If you look at the tstat housing you can see the trans bolted up.

On a l36 lower intake manifold in a 3.8 fbody. the tstat is right in front of the motor right next to the tb on the drivers side above some pulleys for accessories and what now.

The holden lower intake has the tstat housing at the rear of the car near the firewall. This leads me to believe it is a fwd style lower intake as the tstat is at the rear of the motor.

I don't think the cowl will be a problem. As the m90 doesn't sit any taller the stock fbody upper intake. The fuel logs however running over the top of the m90 most likely will not clear and also will be pointing the wrong way to work. However there are a few fuel rails out that don't run over the top of the supercharger that are ussually used with intercooler setups. so this would probably be the best way to go for fuel logs. Finally the OZm90 is different then the fwd state side m90. That comparison thread shows it well. But the inlet is curved toward the front of the vehicle and it also has another elbow that attaches as well. This is the big factor for putting into a fbody that will be driven on a regular basis. Me and Bird of Prey already test fitted my lower intake and m90 onto his car. The problem is is that the us m90 inlet is straight and won't work with the firewall right there. The big question of the hour is will the bend in the oz m90 be enough to clear the firewall.

By the way anyone have the part number on that coolant elbow?

[dougsgtp]

Not that simple just look at the pics in this thread for the difference between the OZ M90 and the American M90's inlet.

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3332


as I said, the inlet will be a problem usin the m90 from the states, the bolt holes all look to line up, just different amounts of material next to some of the bolt holes near the inlet.

[FlyinGTP]

I'm pretty confident that the project needs the OZm90, OZ lower intake (the sc openings appear to be different), OZ tstat housing, and OZ coil pack bracket. However you could just relocate your coil packs to where ever. I'm just trying to figure out if this could become another good FI option for people around here. Granted i'm all about building up the bottom end of the motor but its been proven over here already that you can run a fairly balls out m90 setup on a l36 bottom end. Guess i'm gonna find out for sure in the next few months.

[scarecrow420]

flyinGTP are you sure the lower inlets seem different? Dont forget that the pics OZ38 posted were of a oz gen3 M90 setup vs the US gen5 M90 setup.

I am pretty sure the lower inlet manifold is the same for US and OZ cars.

Now about that coolant elbow, i can easily get the part number but im not sure which part you mean? Is it on page 17 of the PDF i posted earlier in this thread?

[OZ38]

flyinGTP are you sure the lower inlets seem different? Dont forget that the pics OZ38 posted were of a oz gen3 M90 setup vs the US gen5 M90 setup.

I am pretty sure the lower inlet manifold is the same for US and OZ cars.

Now about that coolant elbow, i can easily get the part number but im not sure which part you mean? Is it on page 17 of the PDF i posted earlier in this thread?

I've got to agree with scarecrow420 on this as I also believe the OZ M90 lower inlet manifold and the US M90 SERIES II lower inlet manifold ( which has not been posted up by anyone as yet ) are identical. Remember the comparision thread is of a OZ M90 ( which is your series II ) and a US M90 Gen5 ( which is your series III ).

As for the tstat locations, as ours were only RWD L67's, so the tstat was at the rear on our passengers side ( your drivers side )

I thought your L67's only came in FWD ? So if your engines sitting east/west with the drive pulleys on your drivers side ( our passengers side ) then your Tstat locations going to be at the rear on your passengers side. Correct ?

As for our L36's the lower inlet manifold looks nothing like the lower L67's manifold.

[OZ38]

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/upload/./userfiles/OZ38/L36 holed.jpg

The result of a lot of OZ L36's with boost. Unfortunately :shrug:

[Tpunk]

I think a set of Diomond pistons or even just some l67 pistons would be a good idea for longevity of the engine. You can get diomonds in 9.5:1 so if you want the high compression then that would be a good choice. Its better to build safe than to let you engine fail at the most unoportune moment.

[FlyinGTP]

I didn't notice that was a gen 5 that was compared it was really late and i had just gotten back from snowboarding all day long. Thats wierd that i said that too cause i think posted a while back in this thread that i thought they were the same.

[FlyinGTP]

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/upload/userfiles/OZ38/L36%20holed.jpg

The result of a lot of OZ L36's with boost. Unfortunately :shrug:

I've seen a lot of stock l67 pistons do that too. Its do to the realtively thin upper ring land. I have a couple of great shots of pistons in not so happy shape. Just ask epic...



As for the tstat locations, as ours were only RWD L67's, so the tstat was at the rear on our passengers side ( your drivers side )

I thought your L67's only came in FWD ? So if your engines sitting east/west with the drive pulleys on your drivers side ( our passengers side ) then your Tstat locations going to be at the rear on your passengers side. Correct ?

As for our L36's the lower inlet manifold looks nothing like the lower L67's manifold.

Yes that is what i was trying to describe a few posts back. i keep forgeting you guys are right hand drive. but your correct in stating tstat location and what not. So that does lead me to believe they are very similar if not identical which is what i was getting at back on page 1.

Drinking and snowboarding can equal interesting results hehehehehe.

[dougsgtp]

I'm pretty confident that the project needs the OZm90, OZ lower intake (the sc openings appear to be different), OZ tstat housing, and OZ coil pack bracket. However you could just relocate your coil packs to where ever. I'm just trying to figure out if this could become another good FI option for people around here. Granted i'm all about building up the bottom end of the motor but its been proven over here already that you can run a fairly balls out m90 setup on a l36 bottom end. Guess i'm gonna find out for sure in the next few months.


that coil pack looks like the bonneville's coil pack, sits even not at an angle like a gtp.

[dougsgtp]

I thought your L67's only came in FWD ? So if your engines sitting east/west with the drive pulleys on your drivers side ( our passengers side ) then your Tstat locations going to be at the rear on your passengers side. Correct ?

As for our L36's the lower inlet manifold looks nothing like the lower L67's manifold.

the belts on the fwd sit on the passenger side, while the inlet is on the drivers side. Or for your cars down under, our belts are on your drivers side and the inlet is on your passengers side

[FlyinGTP]

the belts on the fwd sit on the passenger side, while the inlet is on the drivers side. Or for your cars down under, our belts are on your drivers side and the inlet is on your passengers side

This whole rhd and lhd thing is starting to get confusing.


that coil pack looks like the bonneville's coil pack, sits even not at an angle like a gtp.

It could be. Or it might be holden specific.


Now about that coolant elbow, i can easily get the part number but im not sure which part you mean? Is it on page 17 of the PDF i posted earlier in this thread?

Scarecrow i looked at page 17 on the link you posted i'm not sure if that is the elbow or not as it shows hoseclamps on it which the elbow doesn't use. I can tell you this much the elbow runs from the accessory belt tensioner to the lower intake manifold.

[OZ38]

the belts on the fwd sit on the passenger side, while the inlet is on the drivers side. Or for your cars down under, our belts are on your drivers side and the inlet is on your passengers side

Ok let me get this straight then the L67's on your FWD's would have the TStat at the front then, towards the drivers side (Yours) ?

[FlyinGTP]

wow i'm offically confused.

ok, take the holden l67 in the comadore or monaro. Turn that motor so the belt drives are facing the right side front strut tower when your sitting in the car looking at the steering wheel/front window. At this point the tstat is at the rear of the intake near the trans and is on the side nearest to the radiator. If this doesn't work were gonna need pictures side by side which i'm gonna post shortly.

[FlyinGTP]

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/435000-435999/435879_37.gif

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/594000-594999/594107_5.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/594000-594999/594107_16.jpg

This should clear it up the first is an OZ commadore l67 you can see the tstat housing at the upper right of the picture. the next shows an l67 gtp you can follow the upper radiator hose to the tstat. The third shows a us fwd m90 removed and you can clearly see how it sits in the car and the opening for the tstat the circle opening in the lower intake at the bottom right of the picture. So its basicly rotating a holden rwd motor 90 degrees.

[OZ38]

YAH WERE ALL ON THE SAME TRACK NOW ! :)

Yep all with you on the location of it all now and the lower inlet sure looks the same as we have already come to that conclusion. Now looking at that inlet for your M90 and boy do you need a Oz M90 for sure I think, if you want to go with RWD. But as was said earlier who supplied Holden with their M90's ? Maybe easier to approach them direct for a housing.

Also in the comparasion of the M90 (Holden) and M90Gen5 (US) you can see a white line drawn on the Gen5 housing where we would have to mill it back to and try to make up some sort of adapter to fit it into a RWD Holden. This hasen't happened yet but it's something you may have to think about also ?

[scarecrow420]

yeah, see because so few of our commodores came with the L67 engine they just took the USA L67 engine and modified as little as possible to make it fit. There is no way they'd go to the trouble of designing a new lower inlet manifold for the comparatively small number of sales the engine was destined to have. They took the easiest way out and just added the angle/elbow throttlebody on, so the piping could get in the back of the 'charger.

I mean the thermostat position and radiator piping is an absolute bitch for a rear wheel drive car really - it's far from ideal


Also flyinGTP i was confused with the coolant elbow - i thought you meant the bit that goes from the thermostat, bends around and then brings the water pipe forward down the non-coilpack side of the engine, so it can come up to the radiator

but you are actually talking about the heater outlet pipes that come out of the pulley tensioner area. On my L36, the lower of the pipes comes out of the top left (facing the engine) of the timing cover, and has a metal elbow part, that a rubber hose then clamps onto. Im guessing this is the elbow you are referring to!? (glad i finally got it sorted out) lol. Ill get you a part number. Also can you post a pic showing the plastic one you guys have

The top of the pipes, comes out of the tensioner arm assembley - the engine side of it actually pokes right through the assembley and goes into the inlet manifold (right below the thermostat on L36 - and into the same position on the L67 although of course there is no thermostat above it).

Here is a pic of my L36

http://members.iinet.net.au/~scarecrow420/car/ftv6/elbow/L36_elbow.jpg


And here is an aussie L67 (thanks to RavenVTSuper6)

http://members.iinet.net.au/~scarecrow420/car/ftv6/elbow/L67_elbow.jpg


so anyway, yes the lower heater pipe thing is metal on ours.

ill scan the factory manual pull apart of that section tomorrow at work and post it up

so does someone have a pic of the plastic setup on the US engines?

[FlyinGTP]

Not of one that is in one peice. They pretty much get brittle and break when you take them out. Mine had some miles on it to so its a little bashed.

[scarecrow420]

here's the service manual diagram. Ill get the part numbers tomorrow

http://www.fullthrottlev6.com/upload/./userfiles/scarecrow420/heaterhoses.jpg

[scarecrow420]

guys i found a aussi M90 and lower manifold etc on sale on ebay - they want $940 AUD for it.

i know you all just want the housing but it would be pretty hard to source one over here. so i thought id post this one up anyway

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43807&item=4536994878&rd=1

[FlyinGTP]

That picture from the parts manual isn't a super accurate representation but its super close. ours bascily just push into the lower intake and and tensioner there aren't any bolts that hold it in. That is a l67/l36 correct. It looks like it buy the picture but i just wanted to make sure it is infact a series 2 3.8 v6 and not a series 1.

[Mays]

my friend supercharged his V6 camaro...it was never the same. He constantly ran into problems with it. I was concidering supercharging my V6 Camaro too until I heard his story, but, I'm sure it can be done. I'll see if I can find out more details on how he did it.

[Tpunk]

Problems come with the territory. If you honestly think you can just bolt on an FI setup and not have any problems you are gravely mistaken. To get FI to be safe and reliable you really need to rebuild the engine to handle it.

[scarecrow420]

That picture from the parts manual isn't a super accurate representation but its super close. ours bascily just push into the lower intake and and tensioner there aren't any bolts that hold it in. That is a l67/l36 correct. It looks like it buy the picture but i just wanted to make sure it is infact a series 2 3.8 v6 and not a series 1.yes it is an Ecotec engine (buick series 2)

that pic is straight out of one of the volumes of the holden factory workshop manuals for VS Commodore.

if you wanted to fit the metal elbow part, i guess yo uwould need the bolts and screws too. does your tensioner arm have the holes for the bolts to go through (and into the front of the head)?

[Tpunk]

i would imagine it does. GM is all about saving money so they are probably the exact same block in every way.

[FlyinGTP]

I would have to look.

[dougsgtp]

i would imagine it does. GM is all about saving money so they are probably the exact same block in every way.

are you talking about a series 1 and series 2 block? there are only like 3 parts that are the same off of the series 1 that made it to the series 2 and its little things like t stat housing and a sensor or two, internals, heads, everything is different from the series 1 to series 2

[Tpunk]

no, im talking about the 3800II and the 3.8 ecotec sold in austrailia. They are the same engine. But yeah, not much carried over from the 3800I to the 3800II. The 3800III is a different story, almost everything fromt the 3800II works with it.

[r0b0t c0rpse]

coudnt u get a holden blower? and all the rest of the bits... ?

[Tpunk]

that is what we are trying to figure out. I still think there might be some clearance issues with our cowl and the top of the sc. I would amost think that the bottom of the sc and the top of the lower intake manifold could be milled down a little to make it clear though. I would be great if enough room could be made so a 1" short stack intercooler would fit but i dont see that happenning without cutting the cowl up a little.

[Dogsballs]

i don't like your chances milling the block on these engines. Remember they had an inch chopped off when they changed from the series I. Another problem, is that in the last 6 mths or so, virtually every man and his dog is after the holden L67 engines and due to the small numbers that were built, they are highly sort after item (big $$$). Also seems that holden doesn't have any stocks of the engines left either. Personally i'd just get out the angle grinder and the welder and fab up the elbow.

dougsgtp, you'd be surprised how much is very similar, the block definitely is not!

[Tpunk]

I'm not saying to mill down the block just the top of the lower intake manifold and bottom of the M90. I think a little bit of hight could be taken out, not much but a little. Just offerring some ideas for those actually trying this... i'll stick with my turbo's.

[dsaxman]

Coming in on the tail end of the thread, and a little off topic, but found out some info that I think you guys could use..

I almost did a 2005 l32 (series III) swap but decided go turbo instead - main reasons I didn't were the money (about 2k more than I had anticipated in parts, and I budgeted $5500 originally) and length of time to do the swap (probably 5-6 weeks considering I'd only be able to do the majority of the work on weekends - if you were having a shop do it, it could probably be done in a week and a half).

So back to the basics.. The motor w/ blower will *barely* fit under the cowl (about 1/2 an inch clearance). If you want to intercool it, you're going to have to notch the cowl (and possibly windsheild) to get the IC block between the blower and the block.

The big problem as you all know is the intake. My solution was going to cut an 8" wide x 6" tall x5" deep box into the firewall to allow the throttle body to come out of the engine normally (although backwards), then put on a 90deg. silicone elbow, a short length of pipe, then two 45 degree elbows to get the intake tube out to the driver's side of the engine. There I was going to mount an SLP LS1 MAF. It was pretty much business as usual from there. I discussed my plan at length on a couple of occassions with Loyde from Fast Fiero's and he made a few suggestions (like the LS1 MAF upstream instead of on the throttle body). My only problem was since I have a 99, I'd need a fly by wire throttle body or convert to a cable driven throttle.. was ready to go down the cable conversion until I found out that the 2005 L32/L67's are now fly by wire.. so you could go that route (but that's 300 of the 2k I hadn't budgeted for).

The other "gotchya" with cutting the box to allow for the intake to come out and snake around is that you would also have to cut your AC/heater vent box.. The way we measured (which was almost perfect) is to cut out the top set of vent channels (so you would lose your side defroster vents), and plastic weld the open channel closed.. the box would fit right above there with about 1/4" clearance. Tight fit, but it seemed to work. (un)Fortunately, we had a buddy of mine's wrecked firehawk that had been stripped that we were using to do all of these calculations on, so we didn't actually have to tear my car apart to get the measurements.

Also, the one big downside I really didn't want to deal with is to do any work on the intake side of things (like a blown gasket), you'd have to pull the motor to get to it..

The other option was to get a custom k-member made with the engine mounts 6" forward. Plenty of room to move the motor up, but that means adapating the steering column and rack, custom driveshaft, custom headers (depending on where your ball connections end up - mine weren't going to clear the fender wells) and the *little* problem of the balance being off with the motor farther forward. Granted, the LS1's have the weight further ahead, but there's also not that big cavity in the back there.

Would have been a neat project to do, but like I said, I didn't have enough cash to do it right and couldn't live without the car for a month and a half.

[Firebirdracer203]

How do you take the top speed limiter off a v6 firebird to stop it from stopped at 125?